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Robyn Bergeron Stepping Down As Fedora Project Leader

Soulskill posted about 6 months ago | from the so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish dept.

Linux 53

darthcamaro writes: "Red Hat's Fedora Linux Project Leader, Robyn Bergeron, has announced that she is leaving her role. Bergeron became Fedora Project Leader in February of 2012 and has presided over one of the busiest periods for Fedora ever. Fedora is now moving to a new model for Fedora 21, with separate desktop, cloud and server products. 'The community has now gotten to the point where it's not a one-size-fits-all product anymore,' Bergeron said."

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Good luck (2)

phantomfive (622387) | about 6 months ago | (#47053241)

Here is a quote from the article:

"If we're going to be able to do three products just as well as we do one currently, without our tripling our QA [quality assurance] or release engineering workforce, we really have to figure out how to automate more stuff," Bergeron said

Does RedHat plan on hiring that many people, or is that why she is leaving?

The real reason she is leaving (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47053693)

Must be sexism. You know, the "male dominated IT world" must sexually harass her every day.

CAPTCHA - BROADen, lol

Re:Good luck (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 6 months ago | (#47054161)

Why do they need three products really?

Now the default installer just seem to dump whatever is on the media you install from onto your hard-drive.

Of course that's not going to fit everyone.

But is it really better to make three different kinds of such media rather than let the person doing the install pick what to install? ..

Maybe some basic ideologies make it inefficient to pick among some "schemes" (mostly security related?) to start with?

Re:Good luck (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 6 months ago | (#47054201)

Yeah, it feels like a bad idea.

It seems like they should just make a distro with everything, and then remove some packages for the people who don't want them (remove openstack from their desktop distro, for example).

Re:Good luck (1)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | about 6 months ago | (#47054839)

Yeah, it feels like a bad idea.

It seems like they should just make a distro with everything, and then remove some packages for the people who don't want them (remove openstack from their desktop distro, for example).

I've got an idea! Why don't they make a Fedora Core and then build flavors on top of that!

Re:Good luck (1)

Zappy (7013) | about 6 months ago | (#47054467)

Like the old installer up to Fedora 12 (or so) enabled you to do before the horrible unintuitive mess that is the current installer replaced that.

Re:Good luck (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 6 months ago | (#47056507)

I'm not sure I even got what it would be doing.

Not a fan. I kinda thought the community / amount of packages for Fedora would be bigger than for opensuse but that didn't seemed to be the case. Of course Ubuntu may be even better in that regard.

Also at least opensuse had the decency to not listen on global traffic in sshd even though it was running there too.

Now it may be because I'm coming from the BSDs but I don't really see why shit (especially remote connectivity stuff) should be enabled by default at all and even less so on something used by desktop users. We have all these live CDs with users and passwords like live/live and root/root and so on and that become a great combination! As long as it's only local it may not matter much at all.

On the other hand I guess I'm lazy and since I am a desktop user I kinda prefer if I don't have to look up how to get sound and X working but I'm ok with that not being the case too. Linus obviously was very frustrated when opensuse didn't let his daughter (?) add the school printer and change the date (?) without the root password. I don't really think it's all that weird but yeah it may be allowed in Windows.

Re:Good luck (1)

AdamWill (604569) | about 6 months ago | (#47061061)

That's what the *live* installer does - because that's all a live installer can do, really, unless you make a live image with a DVD-size package repository, which not many people really seem to want.

The *non live* installer still lets you choose the deployed package set.

The three product approach isn't simply about the deployed package set, though. It involves really rather a lot more than that. Hard to go into details in a Slashdot comment, but see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki... [fedoraproject.org] .

Re:Good luck (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 6 months ago | (#47064181)

I have an Internet connection and have installed OpenBSD multiple times using just a single floppy disc.

But yeah, there was other solutions too. I don't remember whatever it was obvious how limited the live discs was.

Google download fedora:
http://fedoraproject.org/en_GB... [fedoraproject.org]
Only live CD listed there, doesn't mention anything about the installer being crippled and limit your options.

Pick desktop and nothing improves:
http://fedoraproject.org/en_GB... [fedoraproject.org]

Formats have both the DVD and Network Install CDs which imho is more useful, both of these likely work but since none of the limits of the previous is clearly stated I don't really see why one would go there if one didn't knew that was what one wanted. I have no real need for all the packages on the installation media and if I'm going to burn a CD anyway given a choice about network installer only or installer with a live copy of the OS I may pick the later because that give me a functioning machine now (and the number of MBs downloaded is close to completely irrelevant to me.)

Here the live CDs clearly state they are installed as is and can't be upgraded:
http://software.opensuse.org/1... [opensuse.org]
And that the DVD and Network mediums are suitable for installation.

Re:Good luck (1)

AdamWill (604569) | about 6 months ago | (#47070477)

yeah, it may be worth adding a note about that on the download page...but one of the things that'll be done as part of fedora.next is a complete revamp of that site area, so i'll wait till that's in planning to suggest the idea. thanks.

Re:Good luck (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 6 months ago | (#47057987)

we really have to figure out how to automate more stuff

Part of this is Fedora adopting a devops platform. I like Puppet (mostly) but we could live with another if it were _the_ standard (I live with RPM for the same reason, "blech, but so what").

RPM and yum are 2/3 of the equation in the modern context. There are so many things in the ecosystem that could be done right with a distro-standard devops layer.

Good luck (1)

AdamWill (604569) | about 6 months ago | (#47061037)

Er...no and no? That wasn't a question about her reason for leaving, it was just a general question about Fedora's future.

Re:Good luck (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 6 months ago | (#47062541)

That wasn't a question about her reason for leaving,

I'm really curious what question you are referring to here

Divide and get conquered (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47053289)

" 'The community has now gotten to the point where it's not a one-size-fits-all product anymore,' Bergeron said."

Why yes, it has. That's why there is (checks the figures) oh right A HUNDRED AND EIGHTEEN DIFFERENT LINUX DISTRIBUTIONS.

Red Hat fulfills a niche. Were I this Bergeron dude, I'd not press my luck and try dividing that into three. But what do I know.

Re:Divide and get conquered (3, Funny)

fizzer06 (1500649) | about 6 months ago | (#47053329)

Dude looks like a lady!

Re:Divide and get conquered (3, Insightful)

Gavagai80 (1275204) | about 6 months ago | (#47053783)

There've been both desktop and server users of Fedora for ten years. Giving them separate install images instead of making them choose differently from a single installer is not going to hurt anything, and might make testing and deployment very slightly simpler.

Re:Divide and get conquered (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | about 6 months ago | (#47055999)

There've been both desktop and server users of Fedora for ten years. Giving them separate install images instead of making them choose differently from a single installer is not going to hurt anything, and might make testing and deployment very slightly simpler.

Might also allow for different release cycles, too, particularly desktop. It's conceivable that server would be the stable core but as new desktop and application updates are released, they could be packaged and released without disturbing the core. Some Ubuntu derivatives do that, using the LTS as a base and then updating the desktop and apps for in between releases until the next LTS.

Re:Divide and get conquered (1)

AdamWill (604569) | about 6 months ago | (#47061235)

It's not just about the install image, it's actually about building useful stuff into each product (and also allowing the same things to be configured in different ways in the different products, which is another part of why they can't just be package sets). For instance, the 'role' management for Server: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki... [fedoraproject.org] .

Three products? (4, Funny)

alvinrod (889928) | about 6 months ago | (#47053355)

"If we're going to be able to do three products . . ."

Three products? Why not five [theonion.com] ?

LOL (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47053417)

Lol, fedora as a server

Re:LOL (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47053517)

Yo momma servers muh dik.

- Nigga Tyrone

Re:LOL (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47053667)

'Cause one set of the exact same tools is different from the other exact same set of tools, amirite?

Faggot retard, fuck off and kill yourself.

Re:LOL (1, Offtopic)

Gavagai80 (1275204) | about 6 months ago | (#47053789)

There are quite a lot of web hosting companies which use Fedora out there.

Not THAT many. Some people write in PHP 4 too. (1)

raymorris (2726007) | about 6 months ago | (#47053879)

Fedora makes sense for a computer geek's desktop, if that geek wants to play with the cutting edge. For web hosting, not so much. Centos makes more sense if you want it to just work, and keep working. Consider the support lifetime for Fedora.

Some people DO use Fedora on a web server. Since people write software in PHP 4 too - that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Re:Not THAT many. Some people write in PHP 4 too. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47054359)

Which is probably part of the thinking behind the new Fedora direction.

With a significantly more stable core, and progressively more changeable library and application layers around it.

(See http://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-present-and-future-a-fedora-next-2014-update-part-ii-whats-happening/)

Re:Not THAT many. Some people write in PHP 4 too. (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | about 6 months ago | (#47056037)

Fedora makes sense for a computer geek's desktop, if that geek wants to play with the cutting edge. For web hosting, not so much. Centos makes more sense if you want it to just work, and keep working. Consider the support lifetime for Fedora.

Some people DO use Fedora on a web server. Since people write software in PHP 4 too - that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Fedora as a server also makes sense for developing new technologies. Just because there is a server version doesn't mean it is for deployment. One possibility would be that Redhat server vs Fedora server would be like Debian stable and Debian testing.

Yes, I did that when a server NEEDED something new (1)

raymorris (2726007) | about 6 months ago | (#47056191)

Certainly, if you want to develop next year's version of your software on next year's version of RHEL, Fedora is appropriate. I even deployed Fedora to production once when the application absolutely had to have a new subsystem that wasn't yet available in CentOS (not without compiling and replacing a bunch of stuff).

Okay, so actually I'v done it more than once. First I did it not knowing any better, than when that bit me I did it one more time when I didn't have much choice.

Re:LOL (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47053939)

Correction: there are quite a lot of web hosting companies which will lease you a physical host or VM with Fedora installed on it. Attempting to run any sort of serious production infrastructure on a distribution with an extremely short support life cycle [fedoraproject.org] is usually a bad idea.

(philip.paradis posting AC from this workstation, as I don't log in on it)

Re:LOL (1)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | about 6 months ago | (#47054851)

Lol, fedora as a server

Fedora is the proving ground for just about all the stuff that may someday find its way into RHEL servers.

However, the process of getting from one to the other involves considerably delay, so some people will run Fedora as a server. It's not as stable, and doesn't get the maintenance lifespan, but that's the trade-off if you have to have the bleeding-edge stuff.

Re:LOL (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47087541)

Lol, fedora as a server

Silly question: Wouldn't that be CentOS?? Who in the world is gonna run a Fedora-based server??

She? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47053531)

How long before the sexual harassment claims?

Re:She? (0)

aliquis (678370) | about 6 months ago | (#47054171)

How long before the sexual harassment claims?

Yours was the first which reflected over her sex. Good work. Great way of raising a point.

In all seriousness... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47053587)

I think all this mucking about with this version, that version is causing more trouble than it's worth. First Ubuntu does the Baskin Robbins flavour thing with Desktop, Cloud, Server, you name it. Now Fedora. Really? What gives. I already think Linux is too balkanised for it's own good. In the last few years I've honestly been leaning more and more towards OpenBSD for their focus, minimalism, and absolute best wireless support of almost any *nix platform. After almost 20 years of Linux, I'm seriosly considering moving to BSD for the sanity. Fedora is doing nothing by copying the rest of the multi-flavour distros. No real need for this.

Re: In all seriousness... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47053785)

Have you used wireless in OpenBsd on anything enterprise? PEAP is not supported and I need that for school. Would get link but I'm on my phone, but a quick google will prove it.

Maybe it's for security reasons, but I'd rather use semi working Linux than non existent OpenBsd wireless, for now anyway. Debian with network manager isn't that bad.

Good (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 6 months ago | (#47053947)

Since the i* think it's sound to:

1) enable sshd
2) let sshd listen to traffic from everywhere
3) allow root logins over ssh
4) (using password)

by default I think this is a good change.

Now where that should still remain the default? ..
Hopefully definitely not on desktop at least. But who knows?

So long and... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47054029)

...good riddance, ya stupid cunt.

Re:So long and... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47054231)

Extremely insulting comment. You are a moron.

Re:So long and... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47054803)

Mildly offensive reply, ya stupid cunt.

I'm abandoning it anyway (0)

excelsior_gr (969383) | about 6 months ago | (#47054345)

The absurd release frequency, the unnecessary changes, and the bad quality forced me to air-gap my system and freeze it in an ancient version in order to keep it running (or, better said, in order to reduce the risk of it breaking down). I stopped recommending fedora ages ago. Now that that system fulfilled its original purpose, it will be repurposed and updated with something different, probably CentOS or Mint.

Re:I'm abandoning it anyway (4, Insightful)

FireFury03 (653718) | about 6 months ago | (#47054715)

The absurd release frequency, the unnecessary changes, and the bad quality forced me to air-gap my system and freeze it in an ancient version in order to keep it running (or, better said, in order to reduce the risk of it breaking down). I stopped recommending fedora ages ago. Now that that system fulfilled its original purpose, it will be repurposed and updated with something different, probably CentOS or Mint.

I think you're rather missing the point of Fedora. The whole point is a Free, rapid release cycle distribution to track the (b)leading edge technologies. The good stuff that drops out of this goes into RHEL a few years later, whilst the bad stuff is abandoned. If you wanted a long-term-support distro, why did you choose a rapid release cycle one in the first place? RHEL, CentOS or Scientific Linux are much more sensible if your're not interested in the latest features; but you can't have both - you can't have the latest stuff that was only developed last month unless you go with a rapid release cycle distro.

Re:I'm abandoning it anyway (0)

excelsior_gr (969383) | about 6 months ago | (#47054739)

Indeed I should have gone with CentOS in the first place. It was a bad decision on my part, but it also turned out to be much worse than expected.

Re:I'm abandoning it anyway (1)

johnsie (1158363) | about 6 months ago | (#47055479)

CentOS sucks balls. Very little online support.

No Kidding. All I can find is RedHat (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47056519)

support when I google for a problem. It's so frustrating!

Re:I'm abandoning it anyway (1)

coofercat (719737) | about 6 months ago | (#47054941)

I did something similar purely for laziness reasons. My laptop was on FC16 until a couple of weeks ago (because it did everything I needed it to). The online update facility was long-gone, and I had to really search to find the FC17 install media, but once found, upgraded to a very broken FC17 quite quickly. I got it working by manually setting up a wired network connection and running "yum update" which fixed everything. From then on, 'fedup' took me through 18, 19 and onto 20 in a matter of hours.

I agree the release frequency is fast - that's sort of the point though. As time's gone on though, updating the entire OS has got easier and easier. 'fedup' makes it so easy it's not much different from doing the usual package updates. However, "leaving it until later" makes the job quite a bit harder, so I wouldn't recommend it.

At werk we use Redhat Enterprise, and my previous employer used Centos. I like both, but getting vaguely up to date versions of some stuff is really tedious. In many cases we end up compiling our own versions of things because that way we get the versions we want without needing to 'pollute' our systems with umpteen packages from $random_repo on the Internet. Probably not so much a concern for a home PC, but it's all part of the trade-off between stability and update frequency.

Pas Cher Chaussures Air Max 90 Homme Review de (-1, Offtopic)

fenguogqiang (3661429) | about 6 months ago | (#47054379)

The interior most sole underneath the heel is red colored timberland femme [frpersonnes.com] . The center layer of the sole is black colored. The outer most sole is owning a combo of equally red and black shades. The sole is has a red colored stripe below the heel and also under the fingers, at also beams the logo on the sole which is current on the entire body. The shoe has black laces and black colored foot enclosure. This shoe is also priced at $74.99. very beneficial offer to glimpse out for.An additional quite low-cost jordans sneaker which catches the eye is the Ice Cream - 017. This sneaker also has a black background. The point which helps make it eye-catching is the blue and red cackle prints on the upper part of the shoe on equally sides as very well. The upper part of the shoe is white colored.The middle sole of the shoe is white colored and the outermost sole is red colored. The shoe has black colored laces and a foot enclosure of the similar coloration.

How about sympathy for the victims? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47054875)

Robyn Bergeron should be held responsible for being in charge of Fedora getting ruined. The past few versions have been atrocities - unstable, broken messes. Fedora is so unusable now that if I built another computer, I would switch to a different distribution. I think we need to have sympathy for her victims.

I'm not just talking about Gnome 3 and other abominations. I mean, I recently used Fed Up to upgrade a box, and it trashed the RPM database beyond any means of repair. I had to reformat and start over with a fresh install. Fedora has gone from a usable if quirky distro to a disaster in progress. I basically will never upgrade a box to a new Fedora release from now on. I would install a new Fedora on a new box (but would probably switch to a different distro first), but never upgrade a working machine.

So I don't care of Robyn jumps off a cliff.

Re:How about sympathy for the victims? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47055465)

I switched to gentoo about 10 years ago when a fedora update trashed by desktop. About three years ago I got a new laptop and decided to give fedora another try. The installation was trivial, and it worked well. Unfortunately, every time there is an update I wonder if this will trash the laptop. I have had to do a complete reinstall once. I currently cannot do a full software shutdown because of some weirdness with the last update. Also, the new software updater is flaky. Overall I like fedora, but there are too many small annoyances that make me appreciate my gentoo boxes. Quality control is an issue, and automating it is not necessarily the problem.

Re:How about sympathy for the victims? (1)

TheSunborn (68004) | about 6 months ago | (#47087445)

Unstable?? My Fedora 20 install with KDE have been rock solid and even pulse audio is working nice. And having a per-program audio volume is nice :}
   

community? that's a laugh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#47055163)

Unless by "community" you mean Red Hat developers.

rob bergendy (1)

MossStan (2635555) | about 6 months ago | (#47055697)

was she eleven feet tall with the hands of a lumberjack?

Excuse me for this but... (1)

ComputersKai (3499237) | about 6 months ago | (#47062811)

Doe this mean he's hanging up his hat?

Re:Excuse me for this but... (1)

philip.paradis (2580427) | about 6 months ago | (#47063925)

Robyn [fedoraproject.org] doesn't look like a "he" to me.

Re:Excuse me for this but... (1)

ComputersKai (3499237) | about 6 months ago | (#47081259)

*she
:)
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