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Former Dev Gives Gloomy Outlook On Linux Support For the Opera Browser

Soulskill posted about 8 months ago | from the blink-and-you'll-miss-it dept.

Opera 181

An anonymous reader writes: "It doesn't take a Columbo to figure out that the 'previous employer, a small browser vendor that decided to abandon its own rendering engine and browser stack' is referring to Opera in this comment answering the question 'Do you actually use the product you are working on?' It appears to originate from Andreas Tolfsen, a former Opera developer who is now part of the Mozilla project. From releasing a unified architecture browser including Linux support since 2001, Opera decided to put Linux development on indefinite hold, communicated through blog comments, and focus on Windows and Mac for their browser rewrite centered around the Blink engine that had its first beta release last spring. The promise to bring back the Linux version in due time was met with growing skepticism as the months went by, and clear answers have been avoided in the developer blog. The uncertainty has spawned user projects such as Otter browser in an attempt to recreate the Opera UI in a free application. Tolfsen's statement seem to be in line with what users have suspected all along: Opera for Linux is not something for the near future."

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OPERA!? (5, Funny)

David Betz (2845597) | about 8 months ago | (#46121243)

The Opera Browser?? WHAT YEAR IS IT!? (Robbin Williams)

Re:OPERA!? (1)

StripedCow (776465) | about 8 months ago | (#46121383)

I was thinking the same about "Outlook"...

Re:OPERA!? (1)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about 8 months ago | (#46121439)

The Magic 8 Ball remembers Outlook, do you remember the Magic 8 Ball?

Re:OPERA!? (3, Funny)

NoNonAlphaCharsHere (2201864) | about 8 months ago | (#46121577)

Reply hazy, ask again later.

Re:OPERA!? (4, Funny)

PRMan (959735) | about 8 months ago | (#46121841)

One time at a startup we were trying to figure out what e-mail system to use. I asked my boss what the Magic 8-Ball was (although I knew because I had one as a child). I asked it, "What e-mail system should we use?"

He said, "You can only ask it yes or no questions."

I got the answer: "Outlook good."

We ended up using Outlook.

Re:OPERA!? (1)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | about 8 months ago | (#46121425)

And yet, IE remains.

Re:OPERA!? (0)

Saei (3133199) | about 8 months ago | (#46121601)

With a single digit share of the browser market, it's only "remains" in a technical sense. For all intents and purposes it's as good as dead.

Re:OPERA!? (2)

rosseloh (3408453) | about 8 months ago | (#46121801)

I've got a lot of customers in town that use IE, and old versions at that, because they have crappy web-based applications that don't work with newer versions, or other browsers.

These are car dealerships, dentist's offices, etcetera. And there's not a damn thing I can do about it. I sure wish these nationwide companies would update their software...

Re:OPERA!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121865)

So your numbers are base 24? [statcounter.com]

Re:OPERA!? (3, Funny)

khellendros1984 (792761) | about 8 months ago | (#46122759)

Of course, it all depends on whose stats [w3schools.com] you use...

Re:OPERA!? (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | about 8 months ago | (#46123443)

Microsoft doesn't put a desktop link on their OSes to download Seamonkey. They leave that as an exercise for the user. And that's really alright with me.

Re:OPERA!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46123009)

IE remains what? Not on Linux. This story was about Opera on Linux. When you think about it - a small company with a nearly unused browser (Opera - 1.7% market share) shouldn't bother to write their software for a marginal market (Linux, buried in "other" at 1.87%). The number of users who want both Linux and Opera would therefore be vanishingly small. Think of the Venn diagram for that. Less than worth developing for, that's for sure. Numbers are from http://arstechnica.com/informa... [arstechnica.com] .

Re:OPERA!? (1)

richard kettle (3009327) | about 8 months ago | (#46122911)

Exactly what I was thinking... people still use this?

That's OK. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121263)

I don't think my Win7 64-bit install will run it anyway.

Opera is dead. (5, Interesting)

suss (158993) | about 8 months ago | (#46121281)

It's just a disfunctional Chrome with Opera branding now.
It died when they abandoned their own codebase.

Re:Opera is dead. (4, Insightful)

Threni (635302) | about 8 months ago | (#46121363)

It died right at the start when it was `pay up for love the ads`...resuscitated briefly when it was the only decent browser for pre-smartphones, then got finished off when Safari and stock/Chrome was let free on smartphones/tablets.

Re:Opera is dead. (3, Informative)

theArtificial (613980) | about 8 months ago | (#46121615)

It's just a disfunctional Chrome with Opera branding now.

Chrome is just a dysfunctional Webkit, which is just a dysfunctional Khtml....

While losing Presto, which has been around since the early days [wikipedia.org] , sucks it's not exactly cheap "me-tooing" the other guys. Besides, one of the reasons for the lack of popularity was the obscure rendering issues occasionally encountered with pages. "Whelp, my banking site just doesn't work, gotta switch browsers" type situations weren't exactly uncommon and arguably speak more about the markup than the engine itself but an end user might not be so understanding. Operas approach makes a lot of sense from a technical standpoint. One could dream about an opensource Presto but with the whole software patent blight I don't see that occurring any time soon.

It died when they abandoned their own codebase.

Seems more like a fork, doesn't it? Feature branch the engine, keep the UI. Granted it's still under heavy development, I'm excited about seeing it mature - I'd like to see how their development tools will be integrated (element inspection and whatnot) since the "old" Opera is known for having many useful features baked in. I'd like to see a webkit with some sweet extensible architecture so we might have Firefox level plugins, see Adblock. I realize this is available now but the effectiveness varies from Chrome to Firefox due to how webkit handles network requests, I'd like to think there is an opportunity here. If development time is ultimately saved as a result, hopefully additional features will once again be the focus instead of reinventing the wheel.

Re:Opera is dead. (1)

Tanktalus (794810) | about 8 months ago | (#46121661)

It's just a disfunctional Chrome with Opera branding now.

Chrome is just a dysfunctional Webkit, which is just a dysfunctional Khtml....

Except that I find more websites work when I enable the KWebKitPart plugin in Konqueror than when I use KHTML for the renderer. So, while they may have had similar origins, WebKit seems to be getting more love.

Re:Opera is dead. (1)

theArtificial (613980) | about 8 months ago | (#46121997)

Except that I find more websites work when I enable the KWebKitPart plugin in Konqueror than when I use KHTML for the renderer.

Is this due to webkit specific markup or missing features KHTML side? Have an example page we can examine to see where the issue lies?

So, while they may have had similar origins, WebKit seems to be getting more love.

That's how forks work, it was split not simply for the awesomeness, but because they wanted to add features. If they were so satisfied with KHTML they wouldn't have forked it.

Re:Opera is dead. (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 8 months ago | (#46122895)

Is this due to webkit specific markup or missing features KHTML side?

It's typically missing features and unresolved bugs on the KHTML side.

Have an example page we can examine to see where the issue lies?

He wasn't filing a bug report, just remarking that KHTML tends to be less useful on [admittedly, foolishly magazine-imitating] popular websites. KHTML simply can't compete on resources with Google and Apple (despite their current status, they put a lot into WebKit). Kudos to the Konqueror team for making their rendering engine pluggable, though!

Re:Opera is dead. (1)

theArtificial (613980) | about 8 months ago | (#46123151)

Kudos to the Konqueror team for making their rendering engine pluggable, though!

Indeed! To clarify, my point wasn't to slam KHTML, or the GP, but to objectively see where the issue lies. After all Slashdot is frequented by movers and shakers, which the NSA even targets ;) It's a good thing there are people out there who enjoy a challenge and are working to improve things. I understand how expensive software is to maintain especially with larger code bases.

Re:Opera is dead. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46122349)

Sorry. But, while Chrom uses webkit as it's rendering engine, it's got its own javascript engine that makes it worth using. Webkit is not a dysfunctional Khtml. It's a much improved Khtml. At this point, I think it's safe to say you're a brain dead zealot and ignore the rest of your post.

Re:Opera is dead. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121699)

I have used Opera since the 90's. This new browser(opera 15+), much like mavericks, has completely turned me off them and many other companies' "tech". I do not understand who thinks it is a good idea to completely change the look and feel of their already successful products. Shame on you Opera,(Norwegian: skjerp dere!!! tullinger ass!). Very annoying interface, removal of bookmarks, gestures that get called when i don't. Have you tried MOVING the opera window in OSX? You hit another browser tab more often than not.
And now that mavericks reminds me more of WinXP than anything else, I think i am going back to Linux or FreeBSD based desktops, where opera apparently don't give a flying f**** anymore. At least they(Linux, FreeBSD) haven't removed support for the features I like to use. NFS in mavericks is some BULLSHIT to deal with, not to mention their annoying pop ups and forcing you to sign up for app store _with_ a credit card. In OSS world I can at least CHOOSE. So, so long Opera, so long Apple (Steve is likely turning in his grave right now).

In closing I would like to say thank you to Apple and Opera for sealing shut my decision that closed source is BULLSHIT. You don't even get what you pay for. Thanks for wasting my time and for having me waste more time getting out of my reliance on you. I will be sure to bill both of you for my time.

PS. I cannot believe I gave money to Opera once upon a time. I sure as hell didn't give money because I wanted thew new opera 15+ crap, but it fits real snuggly in with the fuglyness of mavericks, in that it's unusable.

Re:Opera is dead. (1)

tibit (1762298) | about 8 months ago | (#46123403)

What people think of as desktop opera is not a product. It's a, well, frankly I don't know what the heck is it. Promotional material, maybe? The best I can tell, they get zero revenue from it. The money comes from the codebase they license to various embedded vendors, like Nintendo, for example.

I really can't fathom what's the use of desktop Opera other than browsing porn or similar image-heavy galleries. It's really nice when you've got lots and lots of images - like perhaps thousands per page. Other than that, the desktop version seems somewhat pointless. It was useful as a main browser back in the days of Windows 95, but those days are long gone.

I would only use it as a main browser if there was a paid version available, where the users had some input into the direction the development is taking. I did pay for it back when it was still paid-for, and I knew that it's going to stop mattering as soon as they stop taking money for it.

As someone who switched from 10.6 and 10.8 (on various machines) to 10.9 within a week of release, I really don't know what the heck is the complaint. It works fine, on what passes for "ancient" hardware (Core 2 Duo machines, 4-7 years old).

Re:Opera is dead. (1)

richtopia (924742) | about 8 months ago | (#46122153)

The issue for me is that it isn't even branded yet. If it felt like the original Opera I would give it a chance, but so many features are missing I am still using 12.

Meanwhile, on my work phone (Android 2.3 , 1.4GHz processor and 512 MB ram) Opera Mobile is the only browser that does not crash when multiple tabs are open. WebKit is fast, but Opera wins when it comes to memory.

Re:Opera is dead. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46122275)

It was broken on Linux long before that. Reporting bugs complete with test cases resulted in nothing getting done. Fuck em.

Re:Opera is dead. (1)

Dixie_Flatline (5077) | about 8 months ago | (#46122381)

I used it all the way up until about 6 months ago when the rendering problems finally got the best of me. It's unfortunate, because it has the best UI customisation bar none. I had my back gesture bound to a small history drop-down menu, so I could jump back to any point in the tab's history. And the way I could group tabs together into collapsible bundles was amazing.

It was things like that that made me start using it, like, 10 years ago. I'm sad that the new version is so non-functional by comparison. Sure, the rendering is good now, but the UI isn't any better than anything else. It was easier to just switch to Chrome and be done with it.

Re:Opera is dead. (1)

pr0fessor (1940368) | about 8 months ago | (#46122703)

Mouse gestures are what I'll miss the most when I finally grudgingly upgrade to the new version {unless they have managed to put them in} or something else. I've not checked for a while does any other browser have them.

Who needs Opera? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121299)

Who needs opera on Linux when there's iceweasel?

Re:Who needs Opera? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121393)

don't you mean chromium?

Re:Who needs Opera? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121479)

No, that's a vertical scrolling shooter, he means Iceweasel!

Re:Who needs Opera? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46122033)

Icy. Weasely. IceWeasel!

And not a single crap was given that day. (1)

Dega704 (1454673) | about 8 months ago | (#46121311)

I had honestly seriously forgotten that Opera existed before I saw this headline.

Re:And not a single crap was given that day. (1)

xaxa (988988) | about 8 months ago | (#46121533)

I used it on Linux until last week, when I switched to Firefox.

I've still not got enough extensions set up, but Facebook and Google Mail now work 100% of the time. Under Opera 12, I was down to about 80% of the time -- I think Facebook and Google stopped testing a few months ago.

Re:And not a single crap was given that day. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121795)

It's always had that effect.

Even back when by most objective standards it was the best one available (or at least better than firefox), no one (including me) seemed to like it. It just had a weird AOL "uncool" feeling to it.

Opera was great... till v12 (5, Insightful)

diorcc (644903) | about 8 months ago | (#46121313)

Been an Opera user since '98. Not die hard, but I always had Opera running in conjunction with other browsers. For a time solo, and now back to using FF, and Chrome (which is what the new Opera really is, minus the extensions - so what's the point?). It was a great browser because it was like an swiss army knife - one that is highly configurable WITHOUT the need for any extensions. Couldn't agree more with the ex-Opera dev. Sadly, they've decided to kill it. I'll keep an eye on Otter browser and keep using v 12 as my research / search and rescue - browser.

Interesting (2)

squiggleslash (241428) | about 8 months ago | (#46121317)

So an obscure platform that only a small band of hardcore fans used was never ported to GNU/Linux?

Re:Interesting (1)

Kremmy (793693) | about 8 months ago | (#46121481)

I go to their website and am greeted by a Linux version download. That's not what it's about though, it's about their new engine that they didn't port. The thing that's unfortunate about that, is that Apple and Microsoft have a track record that shows they aren't worth the long term support. The massive UI changes, forced on users of their most prominent applications, over and over again. New deployments shouldn't use either. That's not to say that there's a Linux distribution 'ready to go' any more than Windows or OS X is 'ready to go' before the end-user customizations are applied, but the Linux distributions are far more likely to remain stable.

Re:Interesting (1)

chmod a+x mojo (965286) | about 8 months ago | (#46121689)

but the Linux distributions are far more likely to remain stable.

Not really. I used Opera years and years ago when it was faster than Mozilla browsers on Linux. Then they came out with some point version that really messed with the UI dialogs, I didn't like it and it was time to abandon ship.

Other than the UI changes I didn't like, it was a pretty decent browser... I am a crusty old curmudgeon that doesn't like UI changes just for the sake of change ( also hence why I use Seamonkey / Iceape - you know, pretty much the same UI from the 90's ).

Alright story time is over, now get off my lawn you young pup!

Re:Interesting (1)

xaxa (988988) | about 8 months ago | (#46121549)

Opera 12 had a Linux version, and even (IIRC) FreeBSD.

Then Opera rewrote the browser, basing it on Webkit instead of their own engine, and the next version was only available for Linux and Mac.

Re:Interesting (2)

armanox (826486) | about 8 months ago | (#46121915)

Opera 10 still supported Solaris (Sparc and Intel) and Linux on PPC.

just a guess (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121327)

Next stop?

Being purchased by Microsoft.

Re:just a guess (1)

Wookact (2804191) | about 8 months ago | (#46122177)

Maybe IE would finally be a decent browser if the just rebranded Opera as IE.

Opera is the fifth wheel on the wagon (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121333)

Before Firefox came along they fulfilled a role, but now we have two widely used open source (and in the case of FF, vendor independent) desktop web browsers, as well as Safari and IE. It's a marketing hole that really can't be fixed by technically superior engineering (which they apparently no longer have, if they ever did).

If they want to stay around they need to find a new mission, some device or service that only Opera can or will do a decent job of serving from. While they're at it, they should come up with a new name b/c Americans don't like going to the opera and haven't for the last 60 years or so - they think going to the opera is for losers.

Re:Opera is the fifth wheel on the wagon (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121995)

While they're at it, they should come up with a new name b/c Americans don't like going to the opera and haven't for the last 60 years or so - they think going to the opera is for losers.

I never realized that Americans perceive it like that. :)

Here in Europe, "opera" is an excellent brand name and it gives mental images of sophistication, grandiosity and high quality.

Re:Opera is the fifth wheel on the wagon (0)

Anrego (830717) | about 8 months ago | (#46122063)

As a Canadian, I'll admit the name puts me off.

The whole product has a kind of uncool aura around it. When I hear the name I picture the type of browser my non-technical grandmother would use to look at pics of her grandchildren.

It shouldn't matter, but it does. I kinda liken it to AOL.

Can't really fault them. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121347)

The market would benefit more from proper a Windows 8 modern UI implementation. Better than wasting time supporting self-entitled freetards.

Re:Can't really fault them. (2)

armanox (826486) | about 8 months ago | (#46121937)

Except you can't write a full feature browser using ModernUI - it's not allowed. Opera used to support a lot of platforms (Solaris comes to mind) that they dropped. Has nothing to do with free platforms.

Not sure what we should do now. (1)

the_humeister (922869) | about 8 months ago | (#46121355)

Oh, so we're now down to this entire list of browsers (minus Opera)? [wikipedia.org]

Re:Not sure what we should do now. (1)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | about 8 months ago | (#46121511)

What the hell is that? [wikipedia.org]

Anyway, Linux users can continue running Opera 12, I assume it's still out there somewhere. It's the last good version of Opera that still ran Presto.

Re:Not sure what we should do now. (2)

TeXMaster (593524) | about 8 months ago | (#46121555)

You can still download Opera 12 for Linux. And that's actually a good thing, since Presto is still the least buggy engine when it comes to SVG and, as far as my experience is concerned, MathML.

Re:Not sure what we should do now. (1)

armanox (826486) | about 8 months ago | (#46121957)

I should see if it still works on Solaris just for fun (if it ran on IRIX that would be even better...)

Re:Not sure what we should do now. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46123373)

Hey, I used IE and Outlook on Solaris. I was at in the corporate IT group at a major multinational electronics firm and my desktop was a SparcStation but for some reason they only supported Outlook clients to their e-mail system. Somehow I found out this existed and it really Just Worked. Would have been, ah, 1998 or 1999. For a long time nobody believed me that it even existed.

Re:Not sure what we should do now. (1)

richtopia (924742) | about 8 months ago | (#46122475)

Sort by rendering engine and you'll see the choices are:
  • Amaya
  • Blink
  • Dillo
  • KHTML
  • NetSurf
  • WebKit

Considering how closely tied Blink KHTML and WebKit are the choices are quite limited.

Actually paid for this once... (1)

advocate_one (662832) | about 8 months ago | (#46121375)

to get rid of the adverts... then they went freeware on me... and then they offered server side "rendering" which meant they had records of every page I visited? FFS Opera... you were once relevant, then you blew it...

Re:Actually paid for this once... (1)

Barsteward (969998) | about 8 months ago | (#46121653)

I thought that server side rendering was only on mobile to speed up browsing. i certainly get a message from some websites saying "you appear to be outside the UK...." on my phone but never on my desktop .

Re:Actually paid for this once... (1)

xaxa (988988) | about 8 months ago | (#46121991)

It was an option on the desktop browser, there was a small button in the status bar. It occasionally popped up a prompt asking if I wanted to enable it (e.g. if I was using crap public wifi).

Re:Actually paid for this once... (1)

glavenoid (636808) | about 8 months ago | (#46122091)

and then they offered server side "rendering"

LOL, what was the idea behind that? Did it parse the html/javascript code and send you an animated .gif as a screenbuffer or what?

Re:Actually paid for this once... (1)

paulatz (744216) | about 8 months ago | (#46122409)

and then they offered server side "rendering"

LOL, what was the idea behind that? Did it parse the html/javascript code and send you an animated .gif as a screenbuffer or what?

There are actually two features.

The first is actual server side rendering, where they would send you some kind of compressed image. This method is used by Opera Mini for android, "feature" nokia phones and I guess even iphones.

The other feature is a server side filtering, at the moment its called on the road mode, it strips unnecessary parts of the page (html comments, unused javascript..) and compress it, then it also recode embedded images with higher compression level. This feature s available on all platforms.

For Those Who Forgot about Opera (4, Informative)

jazman_777 (44742) | about 8 months ago | (#46121387)

Opera users typically were hardcore about it, and would only let go when you pried their cold dead hand away from it. I've been a longtime Opera user...the new version is derisively called "Chropera" and I've dumped it. It's just bad, so many of the things that made Opera are gone, so why use this Chropera? It didn't even have a bookmark manager, just that stupid Speed Dial. And then there is the general evasiveness of the devs, especially about a Linux version. So if you've forgotten about it, consider it a mercy. For those of us who loved using Opera, it's very painful.

Yup, an epic management coup. (4, Informative)

game kid (805301) | about 8 months ago | (#46121467)

Yup, this was a glorious coup by company higher-ups.

Grats, Opera management. You managed to kick out a good founder [slashdot.org] , kick out a good engine [slashdot.org] , and kick out any certainty that you won't be sold out to Facebook [slashdot.org] (Facebook, ffs!). You even made me wonder, between Tolfsen's account and the second engine change (from WebKit to Blink) [slashdot.org] , if Google has simply stuffed your ranks with their management just to Elop the place.

ggwp.

Why leave Opera 12.16 64-bit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121503)

Opera's STILL showing itself to be "bulletproof & bugfree" -> http://secunia.com/advisories/... [secunia.com] + it has every feature you can think of NATIVELY BUILT-IN (vs. other browsers using plugins & their associated overheads + security issues)...

* I'm no "CHOPERA" man, I like & still use the last TRUE Opera, in its last builds for 64-bit Windows as shown above, & those are my reasons why...

APK

P.S.=> It IS "the Superior Warrior" out there in the way of webbrowsers, even now...

... apk

Re:Why leave Opera 12.16 64-bit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46122131)

Opera's STILL showing itself to be "bulletproof & bugfree" -> http://secunia.com/advisories/ [secunia.com] ...

Or maybe no security researcher bothers to analyze it anymore.

Re:Why leave Opera 12.16 64-bit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46122197)

Bulletproof huh? I bet it doesn't have HOSTS file support.

Re:For Those Who Forgot about Opera (1)

Barsteward (969998) | about 8 months ago | (#46121595)

For me the "Session" is missing. There is a bookmark bar but i've not used bookmarks since speedial was implemented. Is there another browser that can handle "Sessions"?

Re:For Those Who Forgot about Opera (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46122201)

Automatic restoring of tabs from last time is implemented in all browsers. If you mean something more sophisticated, there's Session Manager [mozilla.org] extension for Firefox.

Re:For Those Who Forgot about Opera (1)

Gort65 (1464371) | about 8 months ago | (#46121627)

Yeah, I had it installed on my machines for thirteen years, if not as my primary browser than as a secondary. Only about a month ago I uninstalled it, fed up with the evasiveness and long delay for the promised Linux version. There's only so long that I'll take being fobbed off with being told to wait, particularly for a browser now based on an engine that's already ported to Linux. What was also galling was the evasiveness by those running the dev blog and forum about when it'll turn up. Now, even if it does turn up, I'll probably just ignore it; why bother when you can install Chromium and get the same experience? From what I can see, it seems to be totally emasculated, with very little of what made Opera special. Ah well, life goes on...

Re:For Those Who Forgot about Opera (1)

Cid Highwind (9258) | about 8 months ago | (#46122743)

Opera users typically were hardcore about it, and would only let go when you pried their cold dead hand away from it.

Truly, Opera is the Eudora of the web browser world.

Re:For Those Who Forgot about Opera (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 8 months ago | (#46122869)

Truly, Opera is the Eudora of the web browser world.

I was thinking the same thing. The only difference being that if you're still using a mail client compliant with 10-year-old standards, you're doing just fine. The old-Opera users will die off much faster than the old-Eudora users.

Binspam / dupe (1)

vikingpower (768921) | about 8 months ago | (#46121427)

Or, also and alternatively: slownewsday.

Installed it 3 years ago. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121457)

It was pretty weak even then. It did what I wanted on a shitty CentOS build. At the time I wasn't too adept ( noob sauce ) at getting binaries to work properly on a Linux distro. You live and you learn. Out of frustration; I used the .exe to run under wine? Jesus christ! What the he'll was thinking??? I look back now on the decision. It's kind of hysterical. Thanks Wine. ROFL!

Re:Installed it 3 years ago. (1)

Barsteward (969998) | about 8 months ago | (#46121679)

what the fuck are you talking about. Opera under Wine on Linux? That is more noob than noob

bloatware (1, Insightful)

banbeans (122547) | about 8 months ago | (#46121459)

It died when it became bloatware just like the rest of the browsers.
Who remembers when it was lean mean small and fast?
I remember a time when surfing with Opera was 3x as fast as ie.
IE got better and Opera got worse and firefox stole the thunder.

Re:bloatware (1)

Barsteward (969998) | about 8 months ago | (#46121687)

Bloatware? its still probably the smallest footprint browser with a builtin email function.

Re:bloatware (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121871)

Bloatware? its still probably the smallest footprint browser with a builtin email function.

So... it's smaller than Seamonkey, and that's it? Not exactly a shining comparison there, buddy.

No, no, please, you don't need to prove your geek-hipster street cred by mentioning twenty or so obscure WebKit/Blink/Gecko reskins with email duct-taped on. I mean, I was stretching enough just to remember what the old Netscape Communicator suite eventually became (God, was that really that long ago?), so don't overexert yourself for our benefit. Just please mention some modern browsers with email functionality baked in that's actually used by a significant amount of people use (your 100+-member support group... er... "user group" doesn't count), and we can discuss that.

Re:bloatware (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46122955)

The installer of last real version of Opera (12.1x) is still smaller than bare-ass Chrome and provides all that I need and more. Even the installer before they dropped Unite (a great feature I miss these days) is smaller than Firefox, Chrome or IE and it beats hands down every other browser in raw speed,

The only proof I need that is REALLY better than anything else out of there is that is the only modern browser that runs in old hardware (the others barely crawl, and that if they are supported).

Re:bloatware (1)

Zordak (123132) | about 8 months ago | (#46123249)

Bloatware? its still probably the smallest footprint browser with a builtin email function.

Emacs is still probably the smallest footprint operating system with a builtin editor function, but it still sucks.

No Market Impact Expected, but Short it anyway (1)

xiando (770382) | about 8 months ago | (#46121493)

There's plenty of good browsers for GNU/Linux and GNU/Linux itself has a market share of perhaps 1%. I'm guessing Opera's got maby 1% of that and 1% of 1% isn't much. I think ditching GNU/Linux support does make sense from a business perspective if they only drop support for that. Focusing on Opera mini for Android and things like that probably makes a lot more sense. Regardless: I truly believe Opera is highly overvalued right now http://www.netfonds.no/quotes/... [netfonds.no] and it's much likely a good short at this price level. This is not investment advice, I'm just a guy who've had a 20%+ _monthly_ return on his portfolio the last 6 months (I only had 17% one month 7 months ago which ruined my streak) so use your own common sense. Just sayin that the it's got one very attractive downside at this price point.

Re:No Market Impact Expected, but Short it anyway (3, Insightful)

TeXMaster (593524) | about 8 months ago | (#46121585)

There are only two rendering engines for Linux, and they are Gecko and Webkit, both of which have horrible support for a lot of advanced web standards such as SVG and MathML, because the focus today is on who makes the fanciest sliding div effect rather than on actually properly implementing existing stuff. The loss of Presto and the reduction of alternatives is a very sad day for the web.

Re:No Market Impact Expected, but Short it anyway (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121651)

No, there is plenty of mediocre browsers on GNU/Linux. Even Firefox is a mediocre browser let alone Chrome.
People that haven't use pre-15 Opera because of "oh no its not open source" have no fucking idea what a good browser really is. Completely customizable, could be controlled exlusively by the keyboard (something neither IE, nor Firefox nor Chrome are capable of doing). Had native mouse gestures that ridiculed any other half baked solutions you may find on other browsers and so forth and so on. The UI could be made as complex or as simple as you wanted. All options were available, and nothing of this less is more crap that permeates the rest of the software industry. It was natively multiplatform and was the first to incorporate new features (including some revolutionary ones like unite) that were later copied more or less half baked in other browsers or even never copied.
Opera was a browser made by users for users. Unfortunately their inability to promote themselves and a management that backstabbed the company were the reasons for the situation in which they find themselves now in. Opera is dead. Nothing of value remains. For those that want to use Opera, keeping using 12.15/14 until it is no longer viable. And then hope that Otter bowser is really up to the task. Because Microsoft, Mozilla and Google want to transform the Browser into a one way channel.

Re:No Market Impact Expected, but Short it anyway (1)

jedidiah (1196) | about 8 months ago | (#46121927)

> No, there is plenty of mediocre browsers on GNU/Linux.

Sound like the situation on ANY platform.

Also sounds like sour grapes from one of those diehard Opera fanboys.

Sad (4, Interesting)

pwileyii (106242) | about 8 months ago | (#46121519)

I had been an avid Opera fan since I first started using it quite a few years ago. I used it when it was the only browser that had tabbed browsing. A feature that is now part of every browser out there. The folks behind the Opera browser were innovators. They had tabs, the speed dial, Opera link (which would sync bookmarks and other items between your browsers), and gestures years before other browsers and they fully believed in being standards compliant. When I heard they were moving away from being a browser developer to being a browser repackager, I stopped using it. They went from innovating to tagging along for a ride. I recently fired up the new version of Opera to be very, very disappointed because it was simply a repacked version of Chrome. Most of the features that I had grown to love were gone and I found no reason to continue using it.

Re:Sad (4, Interesting)

Barsteward (969998) | about 8 months ago | (#46121613)

yep, i started with opera 5 which i think is where the tabs were introduced and it was so much faster and bullet proof compared to anything else.

Dragonfly (1)

Alain Williams (2972) | about 8 months ago | (#46121547)

I do occasional web development. Opera's dragonfly is a great compliment to Firefox Web Developer toolbar. If Opera were to go, it would be a great loss.

Another webkit is irrelevent (4, Insightful)

linebackn (131821) | about 8 months ago | (#46121567)

One of the strengths (and simultaneous weakens) of Opera was that it used it's own unique rendering engine. That gave it an advantage in specialized situations where others would not quite fit.

Since they changed to using webkit, they are, in my opinion, basically irrelevant now. They might have well just become another one of those circa 2000 Microsoft Internet Explorer shells.

Say what you will about Presto not working on site x, y, or z, more diversity is good, and it helps keep real standard in check. There were once too many sites that were only viewable in IE, I do not look forward to a future internet that is only viewable in Google Chome.

Is there any hope at all that they might open source the Presto Rendering engine?

Re:Another webkit is irrelevent (1)

jazman_777 (44742) | about 8 months ago | (#46121733)

Not at the moment. They continue to use Presto in Opera Mini and in embedded, so they don't want to open source it, no explicit reason beyond that given. (I read this at the http://blogs.opera.com/desktop [opera.com] site in the comments to one of the posts, can't find it...)

Re:Another webkit is irrelevent (2)

adiposity (684943) | about 8 months ago | (#46122113)

While as a developer, I appreciated the diversity in rendering engines Opera brought to the table, as a user, I don't think I would care. If Opera was better than Chrome with Presto, it could be better with Blink--with the added benefit of lots of obscure sites actually working.

How many Opera users actually celebrated that Opera worked on less websites than Chrome as a good thing?

Now, if Presto was faster (which it could be, at times), then that's another argument. But diversity wasn't what made them fans, IMO.

Re:Another webkit is irrelevent (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 8 months ago | (#46122917)

If Opera was better than Chrome with Presto, it could be better with Blink

Just this. It seems unlikely that Opera could not, in theory, implement all of the things its users loved on top of Chrome.

But when we see them dumping their rendering engine developers instead of setting them out to do this, we know that they have cash-flow issues, and apparently they're going to follow the death-march pattern that so many managers seem to choose when faced with such problems.

Re:Another webkit is irrelevent (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46123081)

No, it was features and customization power. To the date, no other browser comes close to Opera (up to 12.x) in those two aspects and those features has been growing in its user base for decades and generally ripped by other competitors.

Most core users don't care that much about compatibility (Opera used to be top dog in compatibility and standards compliance and most "compatibility" issues were site errors and could be solved by masking the user agent) nor speed (Opera has always been fast enough to be competitive and the performance you gain from their built-in features blow anything else out of the water); it was all about Opera features and until another browser copies their Mail/RSS implementation or it goes open source, I'm going to be stuck with Opera 12 per secula seculorum.

PD: Who the hell cares about linux, give Opera back!

Headline correction (1)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about 8 months ago | (#46121671)

Former Dev Gives Gloomy Outlook On Linux Support From the Opera Browser

FTFY. Linux will always be there for Opera to run on, if it wishes to.

Re:Headline correction (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121735)

Don't personify computer programs; they hate that!

Tell the devs to relax (1)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | about 8 months ago | (#46121683)

I don't think anyone is wanting that anymore.

oh Opera, why..? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121707)

Reposted from here [slashdot.org] (same AC as before) in the hope that Opera devs will read it and think hard:

Been using Opera since v5 days in early 2001 and still remember the big banner it had back then as the company moved to a free but adware supported version.

I've lovingly used Opera due to its mouse gestures, tabs (many tab placement options, the more recent grouping features), session manager, and good customization for key bindings, resisting the complete switch to other more well 'web-supported' browsers when it's rendering wasn't good on some sites I was frequently browsing, always using it as the main browser.

In 2013 however they decided to switch to the Chrome rendering engine.. and have since (seemingly) forgotten about us Linux users, with no (new) Linux version available since v12 in July before the transition, while the Windows/Mac versions are now up to v18 (and v19 developer preview). There have been rumors of a Linux version but no concrete proof there will ever be one, and soon I will jump ship to another browser which is showing good care for Linux users.

Goodbye Opera.. I'll be very sorry to see you go.

Opensourcing their codebase (1)

Nammi-namm (2841499) | about 8 months ago | (#46121761)

Personally I think if they're going to dump Presto like that, they might as well let someone else further the engine, hell it might even adopt more users that way.

I used Opera only because of its engine. Now there is nothing, not even my precious Linux support. So, stick with 12.16, or stick with something both FOSS and modern.

still using opera 12 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121771)

I still remember when I discovered opera on dial-up, and what an wonder. much faster browsing then IE or netscape, faster download speed, tabs, mouse gestures, and most magical thing on dial-up = resume download.
opera was best browser by miles...
and opera was best for years. no matter that FF has 50 times market share, opera was really much better.

and then opera devs slowly fcked it. they started adding kind of bloatware (unite, link, torrent downloads, some strange extensions...), included plugin support, and opera becomes buggy.
for anyone used to standard opera, opera 15 is a joke. they could have bankrupted as well

I'm opera user for long years, and I still use 12.16
because it is still kind of best browser on market...
it is slow (js) and buggy and I would really like to go for something else, but there is no browser which could offer me a half of things opera could.
which is shame.

still using opera classic for android, because it is six time better than anything else.

Opera 12.16 == same here ! but soon it will be .. (1)

burni2 (1643061) | about 8 months ago | (#46122009)

replaced.

Interface (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46121947)

I tried a few times over the years, but it always amazed me first with how small the download was, and then second with how terrible the interface was. It never really improved and was only popular with a small number of users.

In the words of Dan Harmon (1)

g8oz (144003) | about 8 months ago | (#46122481)

As a long time Opera on Linux user, the "pivot" the company has taken towards Webkit and a dysfunctional UI is like "being held down and watching your family get raped on a beach"

Chop... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46123093)

I was a long time Opera user and enjoyed testing all of the weekly builds on my linux system, and to be fair it was a really good browser with some unique features... but... since merging it with chrome and literally throwing away all of those features that made opera it's own, and total lack of linux support I've dumped Opera and moved to Chromium Browser which works well and may not have all those nice features that opera once had, but hey, at least they support linux...

I use Opera...wait stop laughing! (2)

yoshi_mon (172895) | about 8 months ago | (#46123175)

So I actually have been actively using Opera for a while now. As well as it having a place in my history as my primary browser back in the day. And by now you might have then inferred that while I use Opera it is not my primary browser. Let me explain.

Since, at least as far as I'm aware, you still can't give a command line options to any Windows browser to tell it where/what size to open it has been convenient for me to use Firefox on my main monitor for my primary browser and then a 2nd browser that opens up on my 2nd monitor. Further it is nice having my 2nd monitor browser be different since then I can keep 2 effective sets of bookmarks. Since my 2nd monitor browser is in effect more a media device than my primary browser.

And for that Opera has worked great. In fact it still is working right now on my 2nd monitor where a YouTube video is playing right now. The UI was decent, it did not eat up a ton of resources, and overall did exactly what I wanted it to do and did it pretty well.

Well just a week ago I wanted to do a reinstall and so I packed up all my programs config/data files and did the deed. Opera's data files sit in:

C:\Users\$UserName\AppData\Roaming\Opera\Opera x64

Notice that last bit...my archive said just Opera not Opera x64 which I thought was a little odd since Opera kept auto updating for me so I thought I was running exactly the same thing that I had been not 45m prior. But whatever, I could see why that could happen between version installs but not updates. I was wrong.

I had been running Opera 12.x. I did not really keep track of it since all the dev's lost their heads and went for version number bloat and all that. So when I hit Opera's download site I just grabbed the latest version, installed, turned it on once, killed it, replaced the default config files with mine, and turned it back on and...

It was like installing Win8. Total UI change for the worse. (This was now Opera 19 btw.) No way to even put up a button for bookmarks. Everything had to go though a "quickdial" type page. Options were dumbed down. Just bad bad bad. It took me to realize that I was running what amounted to a whole new Opera and not the old one that had served me well.

Here: http://www.opera.com/download/... [opera.com]

You can see where the change was. The old Opera, which they appear to still be doing some updates to, stops at 12.x and then the reboot starts at 15 and is up to 19, lol, now. That version is something that again I liken to a Win8 version of Opera. I did not use it long enough, the new version of Opera, to give it any sort of proper review. All I know is that it was bad for me, reeked of some sort of desire to force tablet UI on desktop computers, and dumbed down everything as if I was using some Apple OS/app.

I am not opposed to change but where Opera is going now will not have me as a follower.

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