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OpenSUSE 13.1 Released and Reviewed

Soulskill posted about 5 months ago | from the onward-and-upward dept.

Operating Systems 113

sfcrazy writes "The openSUSE team just announced the release of openSUSE 13.1. There are some core points which set openSUSE apart from the popular Ubuntu distro. While Ubuntu has become a more or less Canonical-owned project, openSUSE is becoming more and more community-driven. Looking at the recent controversies around Ubuntu and their move toward mobile platforms, openSUSE seems to be a great option for desktop users."

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113 comments

Third party software (3, Interesting)

msobkow (48369) | about 5 months ago | (#45469677)

I wonder what the status is on third-party software like DB/2 LUW, Oracle, and Sybase ASE. I know Ubuntu can only handle DB/2 LUW. Oracle and Sybase want a RedHat core.

Ah well, it doesn't matter. I've got DB/2 LUW, PostgreSQL, and MySQL running under Debian, and Oracle, Sybase ASE, and SQL Server on a Win7 box, so my database needs are covered.

I've run SuSE in the past though, and did like it. To be honest I can't remember why I switched. I think that was an actual dead machine issue -- I lost a couple of boxen in a car accident about 10 years ago.

Re:Third party software (5, Interesting)

cold fjord (826450) | about 5 months ago | (#45469785)

From what I've seen in the past, if you're looking to run big "name brand" software, your only real Linux choices are Red Hat and Suse if you want to run on a certified OS. It makes no sense to run software costing $100k+ on uncertified platforms.

I've always preferred Suse to Red Hat myself. Suse was always much closer to other Unix releases in the way it did things compared to Red hat which tended to go off in its own direction. Unfortunately I almost always end up having to deal with Red Hat anyway.

Re: Third party software (1)

Archwyrm (670653) | about 5 months ago | (#45470033)

I'm curious to know in what ways Suse is more like Unix? Once upon a time my company had a bunch of SLES installs, then we moved to Debian, and now we have a couple of RH machines. Maybe it's my perspective but I've found SLES and RHEL to be basically identical apart from all the GUI garbage that gets layered on top.

Re:Third party software (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 5 months ago | (#45470077)

I am surprised Debian stable is not supported?

Corporations and developers hate change and like things to freeze in time witness Solaris, IE 6, Java 1.4.x etc. Debian stable fits the bill well.

I know Ubuntu has many fan boys here, but it makes a crappy choice for a developer if your platform changes major shit out every 6 months and updates make more radical changes than Solaris or Windows updates.

Shit Redhat is still based on kernel 2.6 and RHES 5.x is a 2006 era kernel with some patches! Sucks for a desktop (Cent OS 6 is ok as it has somewhat ok device support compared to 5.x) users, but corporate server admins and developers know it is a solid target. CentOS is compatible with other software and a fine OS if you love Gnome 2 still.

Even Windows 7 which slashdotters think is modern is getting old at 4 years. Amazing what Vista and Windows 8 did to the average slashdotter mindset! To praise a 4 year old OS would get you modded +funny or -1 fast pre-Vista and created XP die hards. ... of course there is also Oracle Linux but lets not count that here :-)

Re:Third party software (5, Informative)

LDAPMAN (930041) | about 5 months ago | (#45470117)

There is more to support than being stable. With SLES/SLED and RHES there is a level of engineering support you just can't get with the others. They actually pay people to help you get your app running right and they answer the phone when something breaks.

Re:Third party software (1)

Fallso (2997549) | about 5 months ago | (#45471377)

There is more to support than being stable. With SLES/SLED and RHES there is a level of engineering support you just can't get with the others. They actually pay people to help you get your app running right and they answer the phone when something breaks.

True, but you can now get "vendor" support on other distros as well. One that springs to mind is Ubuntu server edition (although as I say that I have no idea why anyone in their right mind would choose that over RHEL/SLES)

Re:Third party software (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45470275)

Debian is *too fast* for corporations.

Re:Third party software (1)

danbob999 (2490674) | about 5 months ago | (#45472569)

From what I've seen in the past, if you're looking to run big "name brand" software, your only real Linux choices are Red Hat and Suse if you want to run on a certified OS. It makes no sense to run software costing $100k+ on uncertified platforms.

No problem. Give me any OS and I will "certify" it. For a mere $1000. That's nothing when you run $100k+ software, right?

Re:Third party software (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45469979)

Pretty much, in the past, I have found all the major DB vendor offerings to run on all the major Linux distros, RH, Suse, Ubuntu. They may not be officially supported but they still run.

DB2 Enterprise supports Linux
Oracle Supports Linux
Sybase Supports Linux
Informix supports Linux and even
Ingress supports Linux

Re:Third party software (3, Interesting)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 5 months ago | (#45470235)

I would not bet my job on a non certified OS though.

If an update to Ubuntu brings down the warehouse and it is found that you were the one who approved the non supported platform where Sybase wont even return your phone calls to restart your business, then do not be surprised if a VP leaves a nice boot imprint on your buttocks as he pushed you out the door after his flight from corporate headquarters.

SuSE enterprise support many of these products (not all). Of course Oracle wants you to use Solaris or at least Oracle Linux so they have a financial incentive to screw you by only supporting Redhat (because they have too.)

I run CentOS in a VM at home for this reason as it is very close to what they use at work which is thankfully free. Would not put it on a real server though doing anything important. :-)

Re:Third party software (1)

luxifr (1194789) | about 5 months ago | (#45472765)

I run CentOS in a VM at home for this reason as it is very close to what they use at work which is thankfully free. Would not put it on a real server though doing anything important. :-)

meh... CentOS is not just "very close" to RHEL but in fact the same... they build it out of red hat sources with red hat build configs... basically it's just a recompiled red hat... the only reason I wouldn't use CentOS is that its community (leaders) is somewhat too unstable for my taste... it wasn't that long ago when you couldn't be sure if CentOS would even continue to exist because of internal disputes... that said: there is an alternative: Scientific Linux... it's basically the same as CentOS with some additions to it that all come as optional packages... difference is: it's driven by CERN and the international science community which makes it a pretty safe bet

Re:Third party software (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45473601)

O'rly?

SL is also, like CentOS, recompiled Red Hat. And they're both so close to Red Hat that upgrading from CentOS to Red Hat is extremely easy, in fact it's something Red Hat counts many will do. So why does it matter if CentOS as a community is unstable? If it perished tomorrow just change repos to SL and do yum update. Or call Red Hat, pay up and ask them to upgrade to RH....

Re:Third party software (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 5 months ago | (#45474487)

Point is ass covering.

That VP or rep for vendor wont listen when you tell them that.

SL! = centos. Different build process with different libs and gcc settings.

Re:Third party software (2)

msobkow (48369) | about 5 months ago | (#45471249)

"Runs on the Linux distro of our choice" is not the same as "Supports Linux." Most databases with the exception of DB/2 LUW do not run under Debian or Ubuntu, even if you use "alien" to install them. Maybe if you surf the net and futz with them for a few days you could get them to run, but that's not "supporting" the distro. It most certainly is not an acceptable situation for running that DB in anything even vaguely resembling a production environment.

As per usual, IBM has shown that you can build a platform-agnostic tool. As far as I'm concerned, the other DB vendors are just lazy-assed fucktards trying the leech off the "runs on Linux" mantra that you just spewed. If it requires a particular distro, say so -- you can't claim it "runs on Linux" unless it runs on all the major distros, not just the one you have a contract to support.

Re:Third party software (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45471277)

Uh, almost all. There's one other major DB vendor out there, and their product is Windows only, for somewhat obvious reasons.

Re:Third party software (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45470261)

For development, Oracle runs just fine on openSuse. I use it on 3-4 boxes for many years. For production, you don't want to run Oracle on unsupported distribution, like openSuse.

Re:Third party software (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45472797)

You can install Oracle in SuSE enterprise Linux, and it is supported: http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E11882_01/install.112/e24326/toc.htm#BHCHGDIE

Also I have managed to install it on OpenSUSE, though there were some minor problems during the installation.

I wonder if you can get wayland working on SUSE 13 (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45469683)

I'm curious to see how wayland changes the game.

Re:I wonder if you can get wayland working on SUSE (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45469851)

https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?project=home%3Atobijk%3AX11%3AWayland&package=wayland

let us know how you fare

(Six months from now) (5, Funny)

squiggleslash (241428) | about 5 months ago | (#45469687)

sfcrazy writes:

Hi, it's sfcrazy. Funny story, but after my OpenSuSE submission, I got a job offer from Microsoft. Anyway, Windows 8.2 is out. It's a little more stable than Ubuntu, so if you've been thinking of switching from Ubuntu you might want to give Windows 8.2 a spin. Go on.

(Twelve months from now)

sfcrazy writes:

Hi there, sfcrazy again. Apple's PR department kindly offered me a job a few months ago. Anyway, Mac OS X 10.11 is out, and it's very Unixy. If you're getting fed up with Ubuntu, you might want switch to Mac OS X 10.11 because it's even more Unixy.

(Continued...)

Re:(Six months from now) (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 5 months ago | (#45471265)

(Twenty-four months from now)

sfcrazy writes:

Hey guys. If you are interested, I have formed a startup which makes a product called sfcrazy OS. It does not adopt existing technologies or paradigms from any other operating systems. We also believe it performs much better.

Re:(Six months from now) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45474763)

That's exactly what I thought. I just heard about a friend receiving advertising stuff from Novell about the latest SUSE and then this story comes along.
That said, I do like suse studio.

Why switch? (2)

rueger (210566) | about 5 months ago | (#45469759)

I'll likely try running it off of a USB stick at some point this week, but will ask anyhow:
If I'm generally happy with Mint Linux (64, v. 15) what things in openSUSE might convince me to change?

Re:Why switch? (5, Funny)

TrollstonButterbeans (2914995) | about 5 months ago | (#45469787)

For starters, OpenSUSE has the GEICO lizard on the box.

This gives you a calming feeling of security and road-testedness. Plus because SUSE is an acronym.

Re:Why switch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45469793)

A community of developers who know how to do more than apply a new theme and poorly-written custom extensions for Gnome shell.

For example, you get current versions of user-facing software, and security updates back-ported to the core OS (kernel/libraries). It is not just an OS that was pieced together from parts; it is well-engineered.

Re:Why switch? (2)

Blaskowicz (634489) | about 5 months ago | (#45469871)

How much software is there? What's good with Ubuntu (and Mint is a wrapper around Ubuntu) is there is a lot of software in the default repositories, so no need to add repositories (to then need to acquire guru skills if something goes wrong with that) or do "make install" for trivial software.

Is there documentation? the worst thing is having spent years how to do apt-get upgrade, apt-get dist-upgrade, apt-get clean, apt-get autoremove etc. and stuff like service gdm stop, then have to learn all new crap. But at least there's killall gdm, or killall (whateveryourdm)

Re:Why switch? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45469969)

Not exactly answering "how much", but apparently there is about 6000 packages on the DVD iso, and there are countless more on OBS which makes it harder to quantify. Trivial, and not so trivial, software not found in the default repos are easily added through the 1-click mechanism (Yast is exemplary with telling you which repos are added in this process so you know which ones to remove later on - in fact during the installation you can choose *not* to subscribe to a repo incase you don't want any further updates).

Documentation can be found at http://activedoc.opensuse.org/
Old docs at http://doc.opensuse.org/
zypper and apt are pretty similiar so migrating from one to the other is not a large hurdle.

Re:Why switch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45469813)

Probably nothing, openSuse provides very slick Gnome/KDE implementations other than that it's mostly networking (very easy to work with in windows topologies etc.) and virtual machine stuff, which I've not gotten the impression that Mint cares about. Personally I prefer openSuse because of the underlying technical decisions (example, you actually got a user's group, none of this every user got their own group crap you get by default in ubuntu- well probably debian tbh but I've not used that for ages- and its offspring). Most people don't seem to care about stuff like that though, as on /. all people do when they "discuss" distros' is to fling poo at DE's and sometimes developers. If you don't care, then there's little reason to switch if what you're using now actually works for you. But if you need to do a clean install openSuse has the, imo ofc, best installer...

Re: Why switch? (2)

Archwyrm (670653) | about 5 months ago | (#45470057)

FYI, it is very easy to add a users group on Debian/Ubuntu. Having used both systems, I like to have a users group and a group per user. It gives much more fine grained control over things.

Re: Why switch? (1)

shrewdsheep (952653) | about 5 months ago | (#45472577)

FYI, it is very easy to add a users group on Debian/Ubuntu. Having used both systems, I like to have a users group and a group per user. It gives much more fine grained control over things.

This. I am an OpenSUSE user and for me it is the best distro overall (polished, great infrastructure: BuildService, ...). The user/group management is very annoying though. I ended up writing my own scripts to support this as the command line tools do not even have any such option. Once I brought this up in the forums. Unfortunately, reactions were quite negative. Please make this an option (even if it's only on the command line).

Re:Why switch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45469835)

The fact that dist-upgrade s don't generally tend to fuck up the box. Also the fact that the kernels, though new, are pretty well tested and most newer hardware works!

Re:Why switch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45470501)

Novell paid many millions of dollars to Microsoft to not sue you.

Re:Why switch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45470861)

Actually, if you spent even a few minutes of investigation into the matter, you'll see that it was the other way around.

Re:Why switch? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45470867)

Meaning that Microsoft was the one who paid millions of dollars to Novell. Novell always protected the OSS and Linux users, including footing the bill for the suit against SCO and donating a few defensive patents to the OIN.

Sad. Very sad. We OpenSUSE has major issues. RPM. (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45469765)

Needing to go to random repositories sucks. It makes users less safe and until distributions understand the threat of non-free software they're going to continue to suck. From a privacy stand point as well as a vulnerability standpoint (and I'm not talking security here- I'm talking vulnerability to players like Adobe, Oracle, and Microsoft, who drop support, etc).

We also need to consider that free software isn't free. Its dependent on user contributions. And not just developers. We need users to make larger contributions and become financially supporting members thereof. $250 every few years to Microsoft for anti-virus software, OS software, and office software means nothing. To the majority of truly free software projects it means everything. Right now there are many projects at risk because of the lack of financial contributions by users.

We need to ignore the users who say “don't bother me with money requests on the download page/advertising/etc”. While we don't want to overdo or mislead (as Canonical probably has done) every project should make it unavoidably clear a financial contribution is needed each and every time the software is obtained and just how much. A small project might need $100 whereas a large project (say Debian) may need nothing. However where that large project is at the forefront (distributions) they have an obligation to request money on behalf of the developers whose software they include.

Re:Sad. Very sad. We OpenSUSE has major issues. RP (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45469867)

Replying AC so I can be brutally honest...

I use linux because it's free. as in beer. the day you want me to actually start paying money for it, then there isn't anything that really is enticing me away from paying that money to one of the two proprietary juggernauts whose OSes are just as nice (if not nicer) to use, polished to all hell, and actually work without me having to dig under the hood all the time.

Re:Sad. Very sad. We OpenSUSE has major issues. RP (1)

mellon (7048) | about 5 months ago | (#45470067)

Wow, you must have a lot of free time if money is the only reason you're running Linux.

Re:Sad. Very sad. We OpenSUSE has major issues. RP (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 5 months ago | (#45470139)

Not to mention Windows does come with a PC anyway so it is not like you save anything. ... no system76 does not count as saving as they do not get the bulk OEM discounts that Dell or Samsung get even with the Windows tax. ... but the GP is correct with annoying repositories. SuSE has a legal agreement with Microsoft. Actually the company that owns it does through the Novell acquisition which limits font use, font rendering, mp3 support, and other annoyances which is why I do not use SuSE. Other distros like Ubuntu can not offer it with the distro but you can manually add it later which is still gray legal wise.

Re:Sad. Very sad. We OpenSUSE has major issues. RP (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45470743)

BSD vs Linux!

Re:Sad. Very sad. We OpenSUSE has major issues. RP (1)

mcgrew (92797) | about 5 months ago | (#45474337)

Wow, you must have a lot of free time if money is the only reason you're running Linux.

The reason I'm running Linux on the tower is partly because of free time. Windows is slower and takes more clicks and/or typing to get the same job done as Linux. I don't have Patch Tuesday with Linux, where the machine is out of service for half an hour, when it has patches one click and you keep doing what you were while it patches itself. No crapware to remove after installation.

After 4 years, Windows 7 crashed on my notebook. I had to take the battery out to get it started again. That's not happened once on my 10 year old kubuntu tower. Lot better than previous Windows, but still not as stable as Linux.

And there are Windows' missing features as well.

Yet Another Stupid Tool (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45469873)

For those of you who've ever dealt with SuSE of any flavor, the "YaST" tool is the biggist millstone chained to the neck of hte users. It does a dozen vital tasks, and gets *very single one of them wrong* by conflicting with, and ignoring, features of the underlying tools it tries to weld into a giant crutch. DNS,SMTP, disk partitioning, package management, display configuration, and network configuration, it does *every single one* of those taks in fundamentally wrong ways. It can't read settings from the configuration files, and it overrides settings that can only be set by direct configuration file editing.

Don't get me *started* on the firewall and web server configuration component. B-r-r-r-r-r-r.

Re:Yet Another Stupid Tool (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45469923)

What YaST gives is a way to configure settings through a curses/X interface for more Windows-like-users. But OpenSUSE does not tell you to use it and you can very well just install and configure it by hand, and YaST won't interfere unless you launch it.

If you really believe that it does so many things wrong, file a bug report at least. Or fix those bugs and send patches.

Bitching about it while doing nothing to fix it is not going to help other people, so STFU.

Re:Yet Another Stupid Tool (5, Insightful)

cbhacking (979169) | about 5 months ago | (#45470005)

I actually consider YAST2 (the "s" stands for "Setup", by the way, though it does much more than OS installation and package management) one of the key reasons to use [open]Suse. All-in-one-place administration of the system, available through several different UIs (QT/KDE3, QT/KDE4, GTK, ncurses, and probably more), is nice. It provides pretty extensive help information explaining each of the options even in the "Advanced" panels. It lets you view the config files it's changing right in the tool, including editing them yourself (in case you can't find the option you're looking for in the UI). It tells you what it's doing at every step (writing this file, running that tool, disabling or enabling interfaces, loading or unloading drivers, etc.).

It's actually helped me become better at *nix administration in general, because it gives me the ability to see what's possible (not literally every option, but far more than the typical ~20% that is all that 80% of users ever need), and to see what changes it makes to the system when I select those options (so I can duplicate them myself, including on other distros or even on non-Linux POSIX systems in many cases). The preponderance of UIs (more accurately, of UI toolkits; the actual UI always looks about the same) means that even if the X server won't start, or I'm SSHed into the box and don't want to deal with X forwarding, or I'm on the machine of somebody who uses GNOME (I prefer KDE), I can sudo yast2 and get a familiar set of tools. It's a truly handy utility.

And, as the AC parent indicates, it is of course optional and open-source. If you don't like it, don't use it. If you think there's a problem, file a bug report, or patch it yourself, maybe submit your patch if you want to. But believe me, it beats all the other distros' admin tools (at least, among the many versions of 8 or so reasonably popular distros that I've tried, including quite a few versions of Ubuntu) hands down.

Re:Yet Another Stupid Tool (2)

LDAPMAN (930041) | about 5 months ago | (#45470155)

YAST is also one of the reasons I love Suse. It handles MOST of the configuration tasks that MOST people need. Does it do everything..no, but it does mean you don't need to start hacking config files 90% of the time.

Re:Yet Another Stupid Tool (1)

houghi (78078) | about 5 months ago | (#45474575)

The disadvantage of YaST used to be that it had its own language. With that being solved and YaST written in ruby [opensuse.org] it would be great if other distro's start using it.

Even if only for some tasks it would be great to see what others can do with it.

Also adding your own modules is a lot simpler because of ruby.

Re:Yet Another Stupid Tool (1)

Zontar The Mindless (9002) | about 5 months ago | (#45471359)

You're already at -1, so I'll save my mod points.

I've been using [open]SUSE nonstop since 9.0 or so. Way back when, I did notice a few issues where YaST would occasionally get out of sync with conf files when trying to deal with USB-connected networking devices. But I've not seen anything like this happen the last 4 or 5 years. On 12.3, I have been using YaST pretty much interchangeably with Apper and the other KDE config tools, and haven't seen a slip-up yet with package management/dependencies, USB devices, networking, or anything else.

The ncurses version of YaST is very handy when you want or need to update something (e.g. proxy when I'm in the office) *before* starting the desktop manager.

It's actually kind of a slow day at work, for a change, so I may go ahead and upgrade this arvo.

Re:Yet Another Stupid Tool (1)

Zontar The Mindless (9002) | about 5 months ago | (#45471375)

BTW, I have set up many, many disks using the partitioning and formatting tools in YaST (which IIRC are just a UI on top of gparted, yes?) and I've never had a screwup that was not my own fault for trying to do something very stupid.

I know you're not me, AC, but... Just sayin'...

Re:Yet Another Stupid Tool (2)

baileydau (1037622) | about 5 months ago | (#45471381)

For those of you who've ever dealt with SuSE of any flavor, the "YaST" tool is the biggist millstone chained to the neck of hte users. It does a dozen vital tasks, and gets *very single one of them wrong* by conflicting with, and ignoring, features of the underlying tools it tries to weld into a giant crutch. DNS,SMTP, disk partitioning, package management, display configuration, and network configuration, it does *every single one* of those taks in fundamentally wrong ways. It can't read settings from the configuration files, and it overrides settings that can only be set by direct configuration file editing.

Don't get me *started* on the firewall and web server configuration component. B-r-r-r-r-r-r.

WTF are you on about ...

Have you actually ever used YaST? You can't have, well not within say the last 5 years or so, probably longer. Well, I've been using it since early 9.x days. If it ever was like you describe, it *must* have been before then.

YaST is very well behaved. It definitely knows how to read and write the appropriate conf file entries without borking anything. It doesn't mind if you use it this time, edit by hand next time, or another conf tool another time. It plays nicely with everyone.

In all the years I've been using it, I've only ever seen it miss reading an existing setting once, and that was over 5 years ago. I've never had to go and fix a conf file up afterwards because it had done bad things to it.

Re:Yet Another Stupid Tool (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45471863)

Having been using OpenSuSE since either 6.x or 7.x days, I've used every version since, some of which were painful (late 9.x releases spring to mind), and I can honestly say that you don't know what you're talking about.

YaST hasn't been required to manage the system since zypper was introduced. You can do everything you want as manually as you want, although if you make manual changes, THEN go into yast, and make "guided" (because YaST does things it's way, making it's own assumptions) changes, you will clobber your original changes.

On the other hand, if you change defaults in /etc/sysconfig, then YaST and you will get along fine. I do admit that Samba configuration, for instance, is an area where you're likely to edit smb.conf by hand, and never run the YaST tool. That's fine, openSuSE doesn't really care.

Keep in mind, YaST is really designed for less advanced users-- users who might want to join an AD tree, and share a directory, or mount a server share, and aren't interested in the intricacies of smb.conf or 'net ads'. If you set out to do a function in YaST, it will produce a working configuration-- it might not be the configuration that an advanced sysadmin would choose, and it might not work well with your enterprise, but that's OK, because you can bypass YaST for those situations (and you should). I manage a number of openSuSE workstations, originally with distributed config files, and now with puppet, and YaST is simply irrelevant.

On the other hand, I use YaST about 90% of the time at home, because it "just works".

Does it matter to end users? (1)

auzy (680819) | about 5 months ago | (#45469883)

The real question, is, does any of the recent controversies surrounding Canonical affect users in a practical sense (or mainly from a political/development/long term sense)?

Last version of OpenSUSE I tried was great, but, I kept having small problems (mainly related to installing Nvidia drivers which actually broke the system, steam support and other Yum issues).Technically, the nvidia issue isn't their fault, but on the other hand, it would be expected that Nvidia users need proprietary drivers.

OpenSUSE definitely deserves a lot more users, and I think long term, it could easily overtake the others. Hopefully this is a step closer in that direction.

Re:Does it matter to end users? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45469941)

OpenSUSE 13.1 came with the nouveau drivers, which worked, but weren't exactly HW acceled. My laptop had an Optimus chip, so for me, I chose Overman97's DKMS nVIDIA module and it worked sweet for me.

Steam worked for me from the YMP file, and it runs great for me.

Re:Does with me (-1, Flamebait)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 5 months ago | (#45470091)

The deal with Microsoft took font hinting away and IT BLEEDS MY EYES.

Maybe I am OCD but I go crazy like someone using Windows 8 for the first time. Yast controls everything and is slow and if something breaks script wise with Yast you are screwed as it shits on anything else it touches.

The driver issues are annoying as well as patent paranoia forcing the removal of mp3s, drivers, and of course LCD and Microsoft fonts. Sorry but LibraOffice needs both to render what is on yoru screen more accurately when someone with Office on Windows opens your files.

I guess it is great for a server actually as it has commercial IBM java support for it. But as a desktop I do not like it but that is out of taste and my opinion is rather old. CentOS works fine in a VM in Vmware so that is what I use as well as FreeBSD image for unix work.

Re:Does with me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45471329)

OpenSUSE ships with freetype 2.5, which of late has become better at hinting CFF fonts. You always have an option to install infinality on OpenSUSE.

What devices are you using that have bad drivers? Can you name any other Linux distribution which comes with a kernel newer than 3.11 which addresses your devices?

I don't think many people have driver/device issues when deploying SUSE or CentOS on a virtualized cloud out there, so I'm just suspecting your arguments are very dispersed in nature.

Re:Does it matter to end users? (1)

TheGoodNamesWereGone (1844118) | about 5 months ago | (#45478637)

I used SuSE from 2004 until the fall of 2011, when I switched to Mint. I like both of them, and Mint "just works" out of the box better than SuSE. The lack of nVidia proprietary drivers is a showstopper for my purposes, and requiring root privileges to access NTFS drives might be a security feature, but to me it's a headache. I say all this in the spirit of constructive criticism. However, once you get SuSE configured like you want it, it runs like a champ. I love YAST; it's everything all in one place.

Just My Opinion, But SuSE Rocks. (1)

smpoole7 (1467717) | about 5 months ago | (#45469931)

I've been using OpenSuSE since the 9.0 era. I had tried it prior to that and found it unusable on my system simply because it defaulted to some gosh-awful resolution. The icons were the size of fly specs. I didn't have time to figure out how to fix it, so I went back to my old OS. They fixed this in the 9.0 release and I've used it ever since.

One of SuSE's key features, whether you're using the community version or the paid/enterprise release, is the configuration tool (YAST, "Yet Another Setup Tool"). That thing is worth its weight in gold. It presents the same configuration options whether you're logged into a GUI or text-based via SSH. Sure, the latter is NCurses-based, but everything is where I expect it. I have been absolutely spoiled by that thing. It's the # 1 thing that I miss when I go to something else.

Red Hat, for example, while excellent and rock-stable, leaves me using command line tools for configuration when I'm in a secure shell. They've been reducing the utility of those tools (or eliminating them entirely) with each successive release, too. Plus, I don't completely trust ANY "easy-to-use" tools, but insofar as I've been able to confirm, SuSE wins.

(Example: the 5.x releases from CentOS -- I'm told that this was true with RHEL as well, of course -- would automatically open some ports in the firewall without telling you ... most notably, CUPS. I hate to dump their "system-config-securitylevel-tui" tool and do it myself. Good thing I always run an "iptables --list" before I expose something to the Internet at large ...)

YAST, YAST, YAST for me. Love it. I realize that a lot of this is just what you get used to, but I'm used to it, and I love it. :)

Re:Just My Opinion, But SuSE Rocks. (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 5 months ago | (#45470111)

CentOS 5.x is 2006 era technology. It is quite dated and is from the same era as Windows Server 2003.

If it aint broke do not fix it deal is there but CentOS 6.4 has some of things you are talking about with more up to date tools. They are still dated too as 6.x came out in 2009/2010 time frame but closer to today.

Re:Just My Opinion, But SuSE Rocks. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45470519)

How could you have been using OpenSUSE since the 9.0 era when the numbering for OpenSUSE started at 10?

Re:Just My Opinion, But SuSE Rocks. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45470891)

Obviously he meant SuSE 9.0.

OpenSuzzy! (5, Funny)

Tailhook (98486) | about 5 months ago | (#45470029)

I switched! Yes, I did. OMGITSOCOOL!!!1 But the Kay Dee Eee is so busy. Too busy for me. But at least it composites. Not like that Mint+Mate stuff. I got AMD but those drivers suck so I got NVidia after I tried the Intel driver on my laptop and the graphics were good but I could not get fast frames so I put in the NVidia 743 Ti X v2 and IT. WAS. SO. FAST. but then the dual heads would not work and I had to make the xorg.conf thing from a poast but it worked so do You Want To Buy My AMD card? it's really good but the X stuff LOL not so great. Zypper is weird and I like debs more but hey it works and the RPMS don't have any stinky Unity LOL that is some major fail and now I have the LXDE with openSuSE and it's nice with fluxbox BUT remember don't try rat poison I couldn't use that one LOL it had no themes and it covers my whole backgrounds WTF??. The LXDE isn't over busy like the KDE buzzz buzzz buzzzz in my HEAD with all those BUTTONS omg and tabs EveryWhere like wtf I need two mice just to configure this thing. BTW what is Akonadi?? It's trying to get my PIMS? and I had to remove it but now I get errors when I start the KDE but that's ok because I use LXDE LOL. Oh yeah and Klipper. But I tried it cuz some body on SlashDOT told me OPENsuse is for grownups and I was like YEAH that's me way grownup in fact I'm old and can't see good so use BIGGER FONTS please kthx. Can someone tell me what AKANODI is?? oh and Nepomuk. There are MILLIONS of pages on how to remove Nepomuk and Akanodi and I think I need to get them off my OPeNsuse fast or my memory and stuff will be gone..... is it OpenSUse or OPenSUSE or Opensuse or OpensusE or OPENSUSE or openSuse or what? wtf is akanodi? come on guys what is it for? google doesn't know and that's weird because google know everything and all I can find is how to remove it but someone said it would mess up my OPenSUse and I like it so I don't know what to do??????? oh right I already removed it this morning gawd its so hard to remember what I did back then but I remember it tried Kali last night and wow that is creepy its got all this cr4ckzor stuff for breaking passwords which is good because I forget them a lot so yea, just don't get spooked by the black theme and all but yeah try openSUse because I did and I did it before you noob LOL and its good stuff.

Lates.

Re:OpenSuzzy! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45470229)

>> wtf I need two mice just to configure this thing

utterly classic.

Re:OpenSuzzy! (1)

yusing (216625) | about 5 months ago | (#45474683)

Hah! After a year of reading the Reddit Linux everyday? Made my day!!
Yeah I'll quit doing that.

Still no MonoDevelop 4.2 (3, Interesting)

KlomDark (6370) | about 5 months ago | (#45470119)

When are we gonna get a Linux distro with the modern version of MonoDevelop.

Call it a trap all you want, it's still a dream of mine to write MVC 4 apps under Linux, using the most recent version of MonoDevelop.

Re:Still no MonoDevelop 4.2 (1)

dotancohen (1015143) | about 5 months ago | (#45473555)

When are we gonna get a Linux distro with the modern version of MonoDevelop.

Call it a trap all you want, it's still a dream of mine to write MVC 4 apps under Linux, using the most recent version of MonoDevelop.

If you need MonoDevelop then you are ostensibly a developer. As a developer, can you not build and install it yourself?

Fonts are ATTROCIOUS (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 5 months ago | (#45470125)

YUCK.

This is related to the Novell/Microsoft deal from last decade before Novell sold its assets including Suse.

Just look at the text in those pictures? I feel like its Linux 2002 all over without the font hinting.

Re:Fonts are ATTROCIOUS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45471125)

Dude... this is Linux you're talking about. The fonts have never looked good in any distro.

Bigger news than this review (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45470507)

Today I learned SUSE still exists. I'm not even kidding.

How irrelevant is this distribution now?

Re:Bigger news than this review (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45470739)

As irrelevant as it has always been.

Seriously, every distribution but Mint and CentOS should be nuked from space.

Re:Bigger news than this review (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45471013)

And thank God it exists... the only distro linux that feels profesional and don't made it by kids... But feel free and keep playing with your bobuntu distro...

"An OS for grown-ups"? (3, Insightful)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about 5 months ago | (#45470871)

openSUSE 13.1 review – an OS for grown-ups

If you have to call it "an OS for grown-ups" it makes it sound like it really isn't.

Did you mean hipsters?

Re:"An OS for grown-ups"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45471023)

you're wrong... the answer is... Did you mean people that want a stable and professional-looking distro and get the job done?

Re:"An OS for grown-ups"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45471457)

No, wonkey monkey. It makes it sound like a no-nonsense distribution for people who have no time neither for dealing with broken stuff, trying to jam the latest moronic idea from whoever happens to hold the helm that particular day nor running around talking smack about other distributions, or their own upstream.

It's simply a distribution for people with a job to do, wonkey monkey.

Re:"An OS for grown-ups"? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45471881)

It was a terrible "review" anyway. It was a cut-paste job of the release notes, interspersed with ads for the blogger network, and occasional comments of "I use it and it's great!".

Excellent installer! (4, Interesting)

emblemparade (774653) | about 5 months ago | (#45471041)

openSUSE's brilliance is that it allows to choose the desktop you want during installation. This is vastly preferable to Ubuntu's requirement of downloading different flavors (Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, GNOME Remix). I also imagine that it's easier for devs, because it involves less packaging and distribution work.

I'm sticking with Xubuntu myself, because I much prefer the Debian way of doing things. Still, it's heartwarming to see that some things *can* be done better.

Re:Excellent installer! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45475395)

ya, so you have to download all of the desktops initially to create your install media, or you have to wait for it to download during installation.. and the desktop environment selection is not a trivially-sized download.

or, you can download one installation image with your preferred environment.. and then install a different one with the best package management system in linux... or install sans-desktop and install one post-os install.

but it is surprising that after all these years, ubuntu doesn't at least a custom-install and package selection option on at least the alternate-install images.

Does version upgrading now work well? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45471185)

I moved away from OpenSUSE on my main computer basically because an upgrade almost completely broke my installation (as in, many programs don't work at all, many others only in a limited fashion). Otherwise I would still run OpenSUSE. Well, another reason to switch was that it is my impression that you are very likely to find a .deb package for about everything, but less likely to find an OpenSUSE RPM. So since I wanted to reinstall anyway, I decided to try a Debian-based ditribution (I'm now running Mint).

Re:Does version upgrading now work well? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45472055)

Yes, it works perfectly fine, and have done so for years. Haven't done a clean install since 10.3.

At any rate, in my experience it's much better and more reliably than the fragile debian stuff - pull the cord in the middle of an update, and you'll have an unfixable packagedb more likely than not - and infinitely better than the bobunut-übercrap - *one* update *almost* broke your installation..? I wish... Point of which is that my anectote is as good as yours, or anyone elses. Besides, most distros do have some bloopers in their past, but if you actually count them, I'm pretty damned sure opensuse have far fewer than most.

since 10.3? (1)

themushroom (197365) | about 5 months ago | (#45474171)

I don't doubt you, however they went from GRUB to GRUB2 at some point so I want to know if that worked out. My screen would offer the old GRUB listing for OpenSuse (which worked) and the GRUB2 listing (which did not work, couldn't find the partition). Wasn't until I went clean that, oh, so this is what GRUB2 is supposed to look like?

Attempted last night (1)

themushroom (197365) | about 5 months ago | (#45474123)

Maybe I'm doing something wrong yet I'm following the FAQ directions, but I always wind up with a Frankenbuild -- part 13.1 and part 12.3, in this case. The boot screen still says 12.3 but some components are 13.1. It works, however an OS should be an all-or-nothing upgrade deal. I'll do a clean install tonight... I tried, man, I tried.

Re:Attempted last night (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45474721)

Since you are not telling *which* instructions you followed, this is how I did.

zypper lr (that's NOT a capital i...), to list what repos you have.

Remove all third party/OBS repos you no longer need with

zypper rr <alias>

Change all remaining repo URLs to the new version of the distribution (needs to be run as root)

sed -i 's/12\.3/13\.1/g' /etc/zypp/repos.d/*

Refresh the new repositories

  zypper ref

At this point I recommend quitting everything related to X, log out and login in a console as root, and then run

zypper dup

My guess is that either you forgot to re-point zypper to some of the new repos, *or* that you ran out of diskspace since zypper as default tries to download everything in one lump. You could try changing that policy to "download as needed", at least if you have a reliable connection.

Yes, there are gui-stuff to do all this, but I have had less luck with them.

How are the packages? (2)

umafuckit (2980809) | about 5 months ago | (#45471887)

I like SuSE. It was the first Linux distro I seriously used but in the end I switched to Ubuntu because often found myself having problems finding software on SuSE. If a piece of software or a newer version wasn't available through main repos, I recal spending ages on sites such as Pacman trying to find the right packages and resolve dependency issues. Is the situation better now? If so, I'd be tempted to switch back.

Re:How are the packages? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45472453)

You can add packman (and other third party repos) to opensuse quite easily. There's even documentation for it on the opensuse site (basically, paste this line in the terminal, or click this button to add the repo)

Re:How are the packages? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45472477)

Not sure how long its been since you've used Suse to have had to look for packages on third-party sites, but since at least 10.x they've exposed the OpenBuildService through http://software.opensuse.org/131/en which allow you to search and install with a single click (and yes, dependencies are resolved).

Re:How are the packages? (1)

umafuckit (2980809) | about 5 months ago | (#45478137)

Oooh. It's been years now. Probably not used it seriously since '08 or '09. I installed it on a virtual machine today and the package manager went faster than I remember it and it found most things I wanted. The main problem I ran into was the clusterfuck when I tried to install the Tex meta-package. It tried to install about 1,500 packages, mostly containing stuff I clearly won't need.

Re:How are the packages? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45473899)

You kids and your packages. Build it from source.

Open SuSE is more community-driven? (1)

codeusirae (3036835) | about 5 months ago | (#45472167)

"While Ubuntu has become a more or less Canonical-owned project, openSUSE is becoming more and more community-driven."

I recall something about Microsoft promising not to sue developers as long as they acknowledge Microsofts patent claims against Linux and agree they don't own their own code and undertake not to work on OpenSuSE in company time. Not much community driving going on there that I can see.

Microsoft’s Patent Pledge for Individual Contributors to openSUSE.org [microsoft.com]

Re:Open SuSE is more community-driven? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45472537)

You do know that the agreement doesn't use any of the language you use to describe it, right? I mean, for Pete's sake, it is an explicit requirement to protect the code it has to wind up in "SUSE Linux, SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop or SUSE Linux Enterprise Server" in addition to openSuse.

Non-Assertion of Patents Pledge

Microsoft hereby covenants not to assert Microsoft Patents against each Individual Contributor (also referred to as “You”) for Your distribution of Your personally authored original work (“Original Work”) directly to openSUSE.org, but only if, and to the extent, (i) Your Original Work becomes part of SUSE Linux, SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop or SUSE Linux Enterprise Server, and (ii) You ensure that as a result of Your contribution, openSUSE.org, and all further recipients of Your Original Work, do not receive any licenses, covenants or any other rights under any Microsoft intellectual property. This pledge is personal to You and does not apply to any use or distribution of Your Original Work by others.

Re:Open SuSE is more community-driven? (1)

lbbros (900904) | about 5 months ago | (#45475199)

I did not acknowledge anything (I'm an openSUSE community member working on KDE), I only acknowledged a manifesto and code of conduct when I signed up to be an openSUSE member.

OpenSuse:Centos::Suse:Redhat (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | about 5 months ago | (#45474471)

Suse is just a European Redhat.

Re:OpenSuse:Centos::Suse:Redhat (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45474811)

That statement proves only that you've never used Suse/opensuse, Redhat, or neither. Just because they both use systemd, pulseaudio and rpm doesn't make them all that similar. Opensuse is way more reliable and configurable than Fedora while being less bleeding edge and less gnomeified, zypper blows yum out of the sky and the water at the same time, while YAST doesn't even have a deadrat counterpart. Thanks for playing, wanna try again?

all this and goofy German geek humor... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45476545)

It was the only major distro that had full support out-of-box for the DBs I was using, Oracle and DB2 (mid-90s; seems after they named 'em by year distributed) at the point when I had to decide on distro; this dictated by choice. Red Hat would support 'em after updating a library, if memory serves. SuSE came in a big, green box... seems there were floppies, but perhaps it was CDs by then. I still have the Oracle floppies, tho.

OH AND... the Green Lizard, and goofy German geek humor interspersed. At no extra cost!

After not really using Linux for a decade or so for anything serious, I'm back to openSuSE again.

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