Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

SUSE's LibreOffice Core Team Moves To Collabora

Soulskill posted about a year ago | from the meet-the-new-support-same-as-the-old-support dept.

SuSE 72

An anonymous reader writes "Michael Meeks has announced that the core of SUSE's LibreOffice team is moving over to Collabora, which will now be providing commercial LibreOffice support. 'It seems to me that the ability to say "no" to profitable but peripheral business in order to strategically focus the company is a really important management task. In the final analysis I'm convinced that this is the right business decision for SUSE. It will allow Collabora's Productivity division to focus exclusively on driving LibreOffice into Windows, Mac and Consulting markets that are peripheral to SUSE. It will also retain the core of the existing skill base for the benefit of SUSE's customers, and the wider LibreOffice community, of which openSUSE is an important part.'"

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (-1, Troll)

rsilvergun (571051) | about a year ago | (#44752851)

Open office has bit me more than once with a few really nasty doc recovery bugs where it'll overwrite you're auto backups and then keep overwriting until they're all gone. Anyone care to chime in on whether these are fixed? I remember they knew about them but left the auto-recovery stuff turned on any way :(.

Re:Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (5, Informative)

WaywardGeek (1480513) | about a year ago | (#44753003)

I figured a libre-office hater would be the first post. Just to counter it, here's my Open/Libre Office experience. In 2000, I started a software company in NC, and bought every employee (we were all big geek programmers) Linux laptops. I didn't pay for a single Windows Office license (though we paid for a bunch of Visual C++ pro seats). It's been 13 years, and even though I have been in a CTO role all that time, I've not once had to install Windows Office. I see co-workers, mostly in biz-dev, marketing, sales, or management roles who get squished by people who send them documents in a more recent Office format. Management hates paying for new software simply to load new file formats. LibreOffice has loaded and edited every file I ever had to deal with since 2000, for free, while my Office addicted co-workers have put out a lot of $$ just to keep up. You're upset about bugs in file recovery?!? Get a real job!

Now I have to give Microsoft some kudos. They've actually managed to continue to innovate in this space, and the PowerPoint presentations I see from co-workers who are PowerPoint fan-boys beat anything I've seen from the LibreOffice geeks. From a visual presentation point of view, they win. That's worth some $.

Re:Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44753049)

I'm not a LO hater, and actually want to see them do better. But when using it, I can't seem to shake the feeling that I'm using something that is inferior in many ways to MS Office, partially due to an immature and slow interface in some aspects, not to mention there's a tangible benefit in using the same tools as everyone else and hence not having to even worry about file formats so long as you have an up-to-date version. That of course and the templates, and the fact that I know MS Office will have every possible feature I'm looking for, whereas LibreOffice MIGHT.

In the end I can't justify the concern when I know I can immediately just use what everyone else uses, and not add to the daily stresses of life purely for ideological reasons. Sure MS Office costs money, but I pirate it anyway so its cost level is still on-par with LibreOffice. About the only think LO has going for it then is it runs on Linux (quite well I might add), but since Linux has failed completely to make even a measurable mark on the desktop/laptop scene, it's not exactly a crowning achievement or benefit.

Wants to see LibreOffice do better? (1)

codeusirae (3036835) | about a year ago | (#44753143)

"not having to even worry about file formats so long as you have an up-to-date version"

It's understandable why you would want to remain anonymous ..
--

better, hater, ideological, immature, inferior, interface, pirate, slow, stresses, tangible

Re:Wants to see LibreOffice do better? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44753175)

Why? Because Slashdot is full of people who cannot understand why spending money on a closed-source product that is less stressful to use and does more than a free open-source product can often make sense? I don't want my karma ruined because of this detachment from reality that too many Slashdotters have.

As for wanting to see LibreOffice do better, what do you suggest? Merely using it instead of MS Office doesn't achieve much. I won't tell others to use it instead of MS Office because honestly, it would be a downgrade for most people (unless they had nothing to begin with, had minor requirements that weren't worth spending money on and didn't want to pirate).

I had tried helping by making a couple of bug reports. The latest was how the middle mouse button no longer scrolls the page despite being selected to do so in the options. Dunno if this is a Windows-only problem or happens in Linux as well, but somehow this problem existed in 4.1.0 beta and lasted until 4.1 release and still no-one noticed. Which goes to show just how small the usage base is for this thing.

Re:Wants to see LibreOffice do better? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44753475)

You won't see these replies by posting as AC, but did anybody reply to your bug report?

Did you retest with nightly builds, if one exists?

--Sam

Re:Wants to see LibreOffice do better? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44753557)

I understand the advantages of purchasing support and contributing to free software projects, but your right. I don't understand peoples obsession with purchasing *buggier slower more bloated and more expensive Microsoft solutions*. Point out a single minor bug in LibreOffice or OpenOffice is hardly comparable to more major issues related to data loss in many recent versions of Microsoft's suite. Outlook for instance has numerous bugs, degraded feature set from past versions, etc. While it does have new features older versions had there advantages. Comparatively I find LibreOffice, Thunderbird, and Evolution a thousand times easier to support or use that Microsoft Office. Microsoft Office is a bloated buggy mess user interface mess that everybody seems to hate and yet are too chicken shit to move away from for fear of change. This despite the versions they are moving to of Microsoft Office are greatly different than had they switched to the most recent versions of LibreOffice. The truth is LibreOffice is easier and has a different feature set with better integration.

The people who think otherwise are f'ing morons. Microsoft fanboys who don't have the balls to admit when they are wrong or stand up to the people whom they support's fears.

Re:Wants to see LibreOffice do better? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44753759)

>> this detachment from reality that too many Slashdotters have
Actually there is a reality that a lot of us ignore. It really wasn't that long ago that MS Windows was NOT even around and people were still able to pound out all kinds of documents using various office suites. There was a time when the secretaries at a place I worked at would have killed anyone who deleted Corel off their PCs. Microsoft still has a really strong legacy base to feed off of but its dominance is no longer a sure thing. Our addiction to the desktop PC and its corresponding workflow is changing and we all need to remind ourselves that looking only at our IT lives a couple of years backward and forward isn't a 'reality' at all.

Re:Wants to see LibreOffice do better? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44757039)

Ami Pro. WordPerfect. WordStar. MS was never the only option. The just had the foresight to spend a fuck ton of fuck tons in bribes to have it enshrined in business usage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_early_word_processors [wikipedia.org]

Re:Wants to see LibreOffice do better? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44754591)

Excellent, bug reports! Got links to them?

Microsoft innovating in PowerPoint space? (1)

codeusirae (3036835) | about a year ago | (#44753091)

"Microsoft .. actually managed to continue to innovate in this space, and the PowerPoint presentations I see .. beat anything I've seen from the LibreOffice geeks"

Googling on 'graphics example filetype:odp` brings up some very interesting results, see these examples ..

Stereoscopic vision workshop [bertrandplanes.com]

Open Source Productivity Tools [pbworks.com]

Re:Microsoft innovating in PowerPoint space? (1)

Zemran (3101) | about a year ago | (#44753791)

Those are schoolboy standard presentations and even Impress can do much better than that.

Re:Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44753103)

I'm a bit skeptical of ms office's greatness too. My company and I do support and having been the one to get the company off the ground I did a lot of it until a few years ago. My recollection is people fear stuff that is different, but in reality MS Office requires significantly more maintenance. There are lots of bugs in it. For instance I had a employee (way overqualified and extremely knowledgeable all around) spend 3-4 days on one customs outlet because of a bug. The most recent MS Outlook was doing something much worse than the auto-recovery bug this person speaks of. Had my tech not done the smart thing and backed everything outlook related up before he upgraded the customer would have been screwed. If you wonder why it took so long too- it's a business customer who lives off email.

Now I had another similar customer a few years back. Same thing happened. The difference is I didn't waste 3-4 days. I hack'd it and the hack involved gmail. Turned out gmail does everything most people really need and was a much better solution than Outlook. It was pretty hilarious. There is this fear that only Outlook / microsoft Office can do what you need it to. It's just not the case though.

And personally I've only ever run this business (substantial size now; 5 years and many employees) off GNU/Linux, Thunderbird/Evolution, and LibreOffice. Ohh we do have imap setup and webmail. Nothing is even outsourced (well, I do use gmail for contacts/calendar actually although we are going to eliminate that shortly).

While we started off doing support for mostly MS Windows users about 90% of our business is now GNU/Linux and it in part due to people purchasing our solutions. The other part is an increase in customers simply going GNU/Linux on there own initiative. About 50% of non-technical local customers who were on MS Windows when they started with us have gone GNU/Linux. It could be 80% if we had a solution for quickbooks.

Re:Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44754607)

Yeup. The real competition for MS Office is Google Apps, and LibreOffice for stuff that is too fat or fancy for Google Apps.

We use Google Apps at work. It is schweeeeeeet. Excel for the serious spreadsheet jockeys because it is the best spreadsheet (LibreOffice admits it's bad and Kohei Yoshida is trying to make it suck less, 4.2 should be a lot faster).

Re:Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (1)

cellocgw (617879) | about a year ago | (#44757565)

My recollection is people fear stuff that is different, but in reality MS Office requires significantly more maintenance.

Fear is great in your cow-orkers! I've been told not to distribute Document.docm files because the Word2010 default is Document.docx and "people will be nervous about getting something different." The weird thing about that is most of these same people don't know how to tell WindowsOS to display document suffixes, so how would they even notice?

Re:Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (1)

Zemran (3101) | about a year ago | (#44753763)

I think that Powerpoint is good but the problem is that the gloss of Powerpoint can detract from what you are trying to say. I have seen a lot of presentations where people are really impressed by the speaker's Powerpoint presentation and are not listening to what is being said. You should learn to present and put the main points, your boardwork, on the presentation in a simple and plain form. Do not use too many different fonts or flashy graphics, they take the audience's attention away from you. They hide your message. If the audience wants to see a movie they have better options.

If you want to create a stand alone presentation that does not have a speaker then Powerpoint is great but for normal presentation, learn to present.

Re: Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44754105)

Thanks, you must be the best presentor.

Re:Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44755607)

I wrote "Nobots" in Open Office (mcgrew here, can't log in on this computer). I use MS Office at work, and to tell the truth, I like Oo better, mostly because it doesn't have that damned ribbon and of course because Microsoft's proprietary file formats are, IMO, garbage. I hate vendor lock-in.

I tried LibreOffice and uninstalled it within an hour. It's really limited; not being able to do full justification is a deal breaker for me. Since Oo and Lo are both open, I'll stick to Oo. Like Linux vs Windows, I'll choose the one with more useful features and better useability (that MS ribbon is is a useability clusterfuck). Which is Linux; Windows has lagged Linux for years in features and useability.

If Lo surpasses or even catches up with Oo in features and useability I'll likely switch. I was disappointed in Lo, from what I'd read I expected it to be the better of the two.

I have no idea what the guy you responded to was talking about. I've never encountered or even heard of the problem but frankly, he sounds like an MS shill.

Re:Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44755823)

My experience has been similar, I started with StarOffice in '98 (before Sun bought the company that made it), even asked my dad to send the registration by fax to Germany to get my non-commercial license (home use). I think this was version 5.0....but later I did try a 4.something on a linux box I had.

On my first job the company used MS Office, but at one point someone sent a document made in the then latest MS Word for Mac and I could not, no matter how much I tried, open it on the Office for Windows I had... but it was no problem in SO at home.

Later I worked at Sun..so StarOffice was a given...except for a few laggards that still stayed on Applixware for a while. And then it all became OpenOffice and it got rid of that heavy and laggy desktop environment alternative/replacement thing it had and it was smooth(er) sailing from there.

Then came Oracle...yuck

I did give LO a glance, but switched back to OO when Apache got it.

Re:Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (1)

jonbryce (703250) | about a year ago | (#44756379)

Powerpoint is actually the one bit of MS Office where Microsoft doesn't completely dominate the market, because a lot of people use Keynote.

Overwriting auto backups? (2, Informative)

codeusirae (3036835) | about a year ago | (#44753025)

"Open office .. it'll overwrite you're auto backups"

From what I've experienced OO prompts the user and asks if they want to recover any lost documents.

Re:Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44753457)

I just have to post that this is a good reason not to use OpenOffice. I'm sorry -- but that is not an acceptable bug.

I'll use the opportunity of posting AC to say. I had a client specify a database in openoffice because they were cheap. It crashed continuously. I'll admit. I forgot my database concepts. It was my first job. But it should never crash -- ever. Let alone fail to recover. The crash is the bug, the recovery is the bonus.

When did this bug originate? Because the few times I've used it, Recovery has always worked.

--Sam

Re:Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44753771)

I had a client specify a database in openoffice because they were cheap. It crashed continuously.

They couldn't afford PostgreSQL?

Re:Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44754629)

LibreOffice is replacing the shitty HSQLDB database with Firebird [documentfoundation.org] , which actually works, is actually maintained, and is not written in Java, so this stuff will not happen any more.

Apache OpenOffice of course is trying to cover up just how shitty Base with HSQLDB is [apache.org] .

Re:Nasty doc recovery bug fixed? (1)

robsku (1381635) | about a year ago | (#44758501)

I have no idea whatsoever about this bug, but if you know about it then it should not bite you again - you should always keep a backup, preferrably on another computer or at least on another HD or if even that can't be managed on some system a backup copy even on same HD is better than nothing. It sounds like a bug that should be flagged critical and fixed as quick as possible, but if this was needed to teach you to backup (and not trust the applications own auto-backups it manages and keeps in same disk) your important data then there is at least one good thing resulting from it.

And no, that is not trying to paint the bug as feature - just like I'm not saying that it was good when I burned my HD and lost most of my data back in the days because it taught me the importance of keeping backups ;) It was awful, but it did have one minor positive effect :)

open source office suite will never succeed (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44753019)

without a robust mail and calendaring client that can co-exist in a microsoft exchange environment (even with full and absolute 100% compatibility and feature match with other office components)... and preferably with a true drop-in replacement for exchange server. exchange is the driving force behind most major deployments of microsoft office and windows server products. because of that large, captive user base, it will remain the de facto standard in business, even among those who don't use exchange for mail or calendaring. libreoffice, openoffice, gnumeric, abiword, and all the other open source alternatives to some (never all) microsoft office components will NEVER be more than a niche product with an insignificant (by comparison) number of users.

google is the main threat to the microsoft office ecosystem... why? because it has mail and calendaring in addition to alternatives to the most-used office components. the open source stuff doesn't. businesses aren't going to piece together a mess of open source products to kinda sorta, maybe get most the features of exchange and exchange server -- and then trust it to run reliably.. they'll pay the microsoft tax and get it all in one place because they're dumb sheep, and 20+ years of following microsoft is a hard habit to break... even if maybe, with the right person in charge of deployment and administration, it might just be the same or less cost overall. google offers a similar one-stop shopping experience but is new and has its own issues such as publicized outages and break-ins, government snooping, questionable data retention/usage, etc.

hate on this post all you want.. but facts are facts. microsoft is king of the enterprise, and ain't goin anywhere anytime soon.

Re:open source office suite will never succeed (0, Troll)

chickybrick (3033037) | about a year ago | (#44753189)

You know this, I know this, but despite all the evidence there aren't many people who can accept this on Slashdot. It would damage their eternal belief that Microsoft is on the brink of destruction.

To be honest I have enough trouble leaving Microsoft products at times, although often it's because they are the best at what they do. There's nothing that beats MS Office, Visual Studio, heck even the Explorer file manager has no equivalent in terms of speed, functionality and usability compared to anything in Linux (which might simply be because Linux file management is mostly done through the CMD, hence a lack of a desire to improve the GUI experience).

Re:open source office suite will never succeed (1)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year ago | (#44753257)

It would damage their eternal belief that Microsoft is on the brink of destruction.

They did just purchase the failing smartphone business from Nokia for 7 billion dollars. I mean, they could literally light the 7 billion on fire, but it would be less spectacular.

MS Office is pretty slick, minus the GUI. Excel is both made by and undone by VBA and really has no peer, but Keynote outclasses Powerpoint and Word is nothing special. Visual Studio is great - when you are working with MS's languages and targeting Windows. I'm not in love with Explorer on any level... not even in Windows 7, which added the crazy Libraries concept, but more power to you. PowerShell is cool - if you have to admin Windows machines. Windows/Office isn't horrible to work on day-to-day, but I'm amazed that it isn't further ahead given the cash these guys make with it. It seems like they completely lose years of development every once in a while, like "Longhorn" and Windows 8.

Re:open source office suite will never succeed (1)

chickybrick (3033037) | about a year ago | (#44753689)

I know I was modded troll before, but I'll add a bit more.

Let me be very, very clear - I consider Windows 7, Office 2010 and Visual Studio 2010 to be the epitome of what Microsoft have created so far. The immediately following version of each of the above (Windows 8, Office 2013 and VS 2013) are all disasters in my opinion, not necessarily due to functionality or bugs, but due to the changes in UI. Windows 8 looks boring as fuck and Metro UI gets in the way in various areas even if you do your best to just stick to he desktop. Office 2013 looks boring as fuck and you need to choose one of the duller color schemes not to blow your eyes out (not to mention the high level of animations that actually make things feel less snappy, regardless of computer power). Visual Studio 2013 is the least affected of the UI changes, but the lack of color is still annoying but not to the same degree as the other two.

This is what Microsoft considers to be improvements to their core product line, and it's disappointing as hell. And I was marked as a troll before!

Re:open source office suite will never succeed (2)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year ago | (#44757781)

You were modded troll because "To be honest I have enough trouble leaving Microsoft products at times, although often it's because they are the best at what they do" is incorrect. Nobody would replace the OS that came on their computer unless the replacement was superior, and Linux IS superior. My W7 notebook will be joining the tower in running kubuntu very soon -- Windows gets slower and slower all the time as its registry becomes hugely bloated. It seems uninstalling a program seldom deletes any registry keys; I'm using the Windows AV (can't remember its name) and have uninstalled AVG, yet Windows keeps nagging my to turn AVG on.

Windows lacks features, has to be rebooted monthly, its useability is awful, and it's slow as molasses compared to Linux.

As to "Explorer file manager has no equivalent in terms of speed, functionality and usability compared to anything in Linux", that is PURE troll. Windows file manager was all right in XP but the one in W7 is klunky as hell. I don't remember the name of kubuntu's file manager, but it's heads and shoulders above Windows'.

As to MS Office I'll agree Excel is the best spreadsheet, but Word has few advantages over Oo, and MS Access is one of the reasons I'm glad I retire next year. I miss real DBMS languages like NOMAD and it's little brother dBase. I'm still pissed about what MS did to FoxPro after buying it. It was a great little DBMS before Microsoft bought and ruined it.

And Outlook is the absolute WORST email client I've ever had the misfortune of using. They went all MS a couple of years ago where I work and I miss the Novell email client.

I use MS products at work and absolutely HATE them. Microsoft makes the absolute WORST products of anyone's in my opinion.

You were modded troll because it was a troll. I completely agree with the guy who modded you down.

Re:open source office suite will never succeed (1)

chickybrick (3033037) | about a year ago | (#44761761)

You are making an assertion that Linux is superior as fact, rather than an opinion. Things such as this ARE subjective. Considering a different opinion as troll makes it impossible to have an intelligent discussion with you people.

Re:open source office suite will never succeed (1)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year ago | (#44762725)

The fact that Linux has every feature Windows has while Windows lacks features that Linux has had for years is fact, not opinion. The fact that Linux is faster on the same machine is not opinion, but fact.

I use both OSes. Windows falls short everywhere except eye candy and gaming, which they excel at. Fact, not opinion.

Re:open source office suite will never succeed (1)

chickybrick (3033037) | about a year ago | (#44763241)

With Windows I can do everything I want, but with Linux I can only do maybe about 80%-90%. Close, but it's those edge cases which tend to burn you and make you question why you're trying to be different - and whether you're being different because you think it's better, or whether you've spent too much time on Linux forums with similar people who've convinced you that Linux is the better option.

I don't want to turn into an intolerant Linux zealot. I still want to retain at least some ability to communicate with 90%+ of the rest of computing users with respect.

Not A Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44753299)

Truth isn't always easy to accept. Stop abusing the parent.

Re:Not A Troll (3, Insightful)

Mitchell314 (1576581) | about a year ago | (#44753645)

Okay. Having gotten this far in the page, I've seen more comments bitching about the stereotypical slashdotter bashing microsoft than actual commenters bashing microsoft. And this is not a new trend. Now, I may not be the sharpest shed in the tool, but seems to me that 'truth' is highly subjective here.

Re:Not A Troll (1)

cyber-vandal (148830) | about a year ago | (#44754379)

They usually mention a non-existent Slashdot groupthink too.

Re:Not A Troll (2)

chickybrick (3033037) | about a year ago | (#44755223)

Bullshit. You can clearly see pattens when it comes to pro-Linux and anti-Microsoft/Windows posts being moderated highly, and anti-Linux and pro-Microsoft/Windows posts being moderated poorly, regardless of the merit of what's being discussed and even the validity of their arguments.

People HATE Microsoft here, often with good reason. But they're also often unable to accept that Linux might have its own set of flaws and that it could not be anything but perfect. I've seen it time and time again - and I've argued with them time and time again (in older, now dormant accounts because it got too much). Nothing's changed in 10 years.

Re:Not A Troll (1)

cyber-vandal (148830) | about a year ago | (#44755363)

It's always the same few people though, not a general thread throughout the site. People like Alex Betis who will argue black is white when it comes to Linux are not everyone. I criticise everyone personally because they're all not good enough for different reasons.

Re:open source office suite will never succeed (1)

robsku (1381635) | about a year ago | (#44763335)

You know this, I know this, but despite all the evidence there aren't many people who can accept this on Slashdot. It would damage their eternal belief that Microsoft is on the brink of destruction.

You know, I would love to see Microsoft burn crashing down but I don't think it's going away for some time yet (although nobody can predict the future, just make informed guesses/estimations). But it's really more on the emotional level - it's not as much from their crappy appliations (at command, taken from *NIX but with lesser functionality, executing entered commands under SYSTEM account, not under the users own account and priviledges, on XP, wtf!?) as it is because of their shady and/or downright illegal and immoral "business tactics".
MS however has provided a lot of motivation for many F/OSS developers to push Linux and/or software for it further - in fact back when MS still tried to fight unix/linux systems a fault in samba was found in MS Windows vs. Linux as file-server competition. It made samba slower than it should be and thanks to that we got it fixed - and unlike some products, we never try making server run faster by allowing parts of it run in kernel space ;)

To be honest I have enough trouble leaving Microsoft products at times, although often it's because they are the best at what they do.

I have understood they were pretty good in designing very realistic flight simulators - whatever happened to that?

There's nothing that beats MS Office, Visual Studio, heck even the Explorer file manager has no equivalent in terms of speed, functionality and usability compared to anything in Linux (which might simply be because Linux file management is mostly done through the CMD, hence a lack of a desire to improve the GUI experience).

See, this is why you're an ass: you lie like no tomorrow.

Whatever you mean by CMD, I can only guess from CMD being *Windows* OS command promt and text console window (kinda like terminal emulators) that you probably mean CLI applications. You might mean TUI apps, but from what you wrote I'm guessing no.

Explorer is garbage, personally when I've had to work long with windows, if it involves use of filemanager, I've tried to find at least acceptable quality free dual-pane (extra pane for showing directory tree is a plus if it can be switched on/off but a big minus if it's forced to be there).

While CLI is indeed ultimately best tool for many operations that people usually use filemanagers for, it's not the best tool for anything/everything. There exists huge amount of different GUI and TUI (Terminal User Interface) applications for Linux. For terminals Midnight Commander is probably most known, liked and if you really get deep into it, really extendable/configurable. For GUI I personally like to use ugly but powerful dual-pane filemanager named "worker" - it's also extendable, has different modes for each pane (defaulting both to showing directory content), can bind general functionality (like generating symbolic links of selected files on active pane into directory on inactive pane - or simply copying/moving them) or filetype specific (image, audio, video, etc. conversion for example) into hotkeys or buttons (which also include possibility for defining a hotkey).

As for Visual Studio, I used to like that kind of IDE's - and before that I used Borland Turbo Pascal/C/C++ type IDE's, which actually are not that bad but nothing special either. When it comes to editing code, whetever it's a small shell script or big projects, I'm like this Microsoft dude:

On Tuesday I attended a full-day Microsoft Developer Network Event in
Stuttgart, Germany. They flew in Don Box and had him deliver a
presentation about .NET. For this he used a laptop with Windows XP and
EMACS as the "presentation tool", and the command line versions of the
C++ and C# compiler that come with the SDK. No VS.NET anywhere. Thought
you might like to know.

...though I use GNU build tools and compilers, that is when not working with interprepted code - makes it easy to write cross-platform build system if I ever want to make program for *nix and windows platforms in language such as C - I really prefer Emacs for IDE. IDE and much much more, in fact I would bet that some people out there have written more than one filemanager in emacs-lisp, so emacs could provide that too, and much better than Explorer ever could.

Explorer is just easy to learn, hard to use. It has very minimal functionality. It's a poor filemanager, and in fact back when I used Windows I rather worked on command line - not the default one, with 4DOS (for Win9x/ME) or 4NT (for NT). They are not equivalent to bash but they provide a good load of functionality - in fact people have build text user interface (not CLI, TUI) applications with it's extended functionality which can turn batch files to a type of "shell scripts" if you will.

Re:open source office suite will never succeed (4, Informative)

guruevi (827432) | about a year ago | (#44753215)

Both the mail and the calendaring part has been figured out a long time ago. It's called CalDAV and IMAP. Get with the times, Exchange/Outlook is only king where the subjects want it to be. There are drop-in replacements for Exchange Server, it's just a question of figuring out how to do it and get your stuff out of the proprietary cycle. Microsoft has itself abandoned Office and Exchange in favor of it's cloud (pay-per-view) offering, there is nowhere to go but open.

"drop-in" != "figuring out how" (2, Insightful)

mosel-saar-ruwer (732341) | about a year ago | (#44754987)

There are drop-in replacements for Exchange Server, it's just a question of figuring out how to do it...

"DROP IN" means there's a readily available "Downloads" page at some website, where you go to download some 250MB executable file with a free 2-user licence, and once you download that file, you double click on it, and it brings up a choice panel between "Basic" and "Advanced" installation, and 99% of all n00b users can choose the "Basic" installation, and within 5 minutes or so, you're up and playing around with the system and getting a feel for how it works and how your users could benefit from switching to the system.

"Drop-In" does NOT mean that you have to spend a week at Amazon, reading through thousands of product reviews, deciding which stack of softcover programming books with pictures of bizarre esoteric mammals on their covers you will need to purchase, and then spending about three or four years of your life actually reading the stack of softcover programming books with pictures of bizarre esoteric mammals on their covers, until you have a PhD-level understanding of C-Compilers [and a worthwhile opinion as to whether you should compile with the GNU compiler or Clang/LLVM or the Intel compiler or the M$FT compiler or the WTFE compiler], and which libraries you will need to compile against, and the theory of BASH shells, and the theory of prime numbers & elliptic curves and LDAP authentication, and the theory of sector-level hard-drive replication living beneath WebDAV and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

And then five or ten years later, when you've finally earned your "PhD" from the "School of Hard Knocks", you've still got to spend six or eight weeks at various internet forums, from Palo Alto to Bangalore, trying to figure out WTF line of code you need to add to some configuration file to get it all to work together reasonably "seamlessly", when finally some poor fat bearded dude, working for free from his mother's basement in Bulgaria, finally points out to you that your corporation can't do this because your 1,000 client computers have a known "issue" involving their 3Com ethernet chipsets in combination with their ATi graphics chipsets, but that no one has been able to chase down where that particular bug might live in the total code package, and so you're SOL.

At which point you learn that no one ever got fired for purchasing M$FT.

Re:"drop-in" != "figuring out how" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44755791)

Have you tried Kerio Connect? It's not open souce, but it does use a lot of FOSS components.

What you've described is pretty much its install process. Hit the website, download the demo, Next, Next, Next, Finish.

The only things it doesn't do are set up your MX records and configure your firewall.

It's not perfect, and it can't do one-hundred percent what Exchange can, but I've been using it for years and it requires almost zero mainance.

Not connected with the company, just a user who rather likes the product.

I'll try ANYTHING. (1)

mosel-saar-ruwer (732341) | about a year ago | (#44757617)

I'll give almost ANYTHING the benefit of the doubt.

But there is a very finite upper bound to my patience, and as soon as that foreboding "Not Ready For Primetime" feeling starts to sink in, I'm outta there.

Again, though, my larger point would be that there is MASSIVE value-add in simply "getting it all to work together seamlessly", and unless and until the FOSS/Linux/BSD community [-er-, non-Apple BSD community] starts stepping up to the plate and actually putting in the elbow grease and peforming their due diligence on customer relations and making the whole process more or less "seamless" - until that time comes, M$FT is gonna keep eating their lunch in the Enterprise space.

Folks in the real world simply do not have the spare time to do the whole "poor fat bearded dude living in his mother's basement" routine for very long, before they actually STARVE to death [for lack of sufficient income stream].

Re:open source office suite will never succeed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44756833)

Both the mail and the calendaring part has been figured out a long time ago. It's called CalDAV and IMAP.

Even ignoring the fact that CalDAV isn't up to replacing Exchange's calendar functions, you ignore that the OP said "a robust mail and calendaring client". I use Thunderbird, but I'm not deluded enough to think that it could replace Outlook in any kind of large organization.

Re:open source office suite will never succeed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44753925)

Why would i need mail and calendaring to go exist with an office suite? They are totally different things. All i need is thunderbird and it has calendar. For documentation all i need is libre office (except i do have ms office from employer, but i use libre office every time i can). Your facts are really weird.

Libre Writer is not quite there. (1)

edibobb (113989) | about a year ago | (#44753399)

I would love to junk MS Word in favor of Libre Writer, but it can't even do a search and replace on a manual page feed (^m in MS Word).

Re:Libre Writer is not quite there. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44753549)

That's why you copy the text into vim/emacs, run the substitution, and then copy back...

Re:Libre Writer is not quite there. (2)

Zemran (3101) | about a year ago | (#44753795)

Have you considered getting a real life?

It's got everything (1)

Tablizer (95088) | about a year ago | (#44753889)

Dontcha know? Emacs also comes with a life.

Re:Libre Writer is not quite there. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44753595)

Seriously? A trivial issue. I won't move to Microsoft Office because it is a buggy mess with freeken data loss issues, a horrible UI, proprietary BS which makes it so only Microsoft can fix, lack of proper support for free standards, and many more major issues. But what it comes right down to is I want essential features like export to PDF to work out of the box. I don't want to have to manually install a critical feature like an office suite on each new PC. No. It's much much much easier to install an LTS distribution and go. 3+ years support, everything integrated and working out of the box, updates to the core applications in ONE single streamlined update solution, etc.

Search and replace Manual Break (2)

codeusirae (3036835) | about a year ago | (#44753813)

"Libre Writer .. can't even do a search and replace on a manual page feed"

Install the AltSearch extension [libreoffice.org] and search for \p ...

Extension "Alt Find & Replace" does that (1)

TheSeatOfMyPants (2645007) | about a year ago | (#44754001)

The OpenOffice Alt Find & Replace [openoffice.org] extension can do that -- I've been using it for years to supplement the built-in find/replace dialog, and it's really rare that I encounter something that it can't actually tackle. That said, while it works fine in the latest OpenOffice despite the extension's age, I have no idea how LibreWriter will handle it.**

**On my computers, OOWriter can handle much larger documents without slowing down or having 'issues' than LibreWriter can -- I'm fairly sure that this is because OOW lets me choose which extensions I want (basically just Alt F&R), while LO has a bunch of science/math addons (which I don't use) coded into the program now.

Re:Extension "Alt Find & Replace" does not do (1)

edibobb (113989) | about a year ago | (#44762129)

This almost works. It can find a page break but not replace it. It reports replacing the page breaks, but the page breaks remain in the document.

Re:Libre Writer is not quite there. (1)

slack_justyb (862874) | about a year ago | (#44754433)

In all seriousness. The standard LO can Find and Replace my most common error that I find in papers with the search set to ^. and the replace to \t$0 That's for a change of paragrah to have an extra tab at start.

There is also the AltSearch plugin that works great and does exactly what you want it to do.

The AltSearch plugin can be had here: http://extensions.libreoffice.org/extension-center/alternative-dialog-find-replace-for-writer [libreoffice.org] and the RegEx expressions with the builtin can be found here: https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/List_of_Regular_Expressions [libreoffice.org]

I tend to favor LO over MS Word because anchoring isn't a chore in LO versus everything you have to go through just to get images set to the exact place that you want them to be in on a document, but that's just my opinion. I still prefer LO and since our document requirements allow us to output to sites in PDF, it is bar-none the best to work with for those who really like to dig into the guts of a document.

Again, just my experience with LO, YMMV.

Re:Libre Writer is not quite there. (1)

edibobb (113989) | about a year ago | (#44762137)

See above -- It can find a page break but not replace it. It reports replacing the page breaks, but the page breaks remain in the document.

What's Collobora when it's at home? (1, Funny)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about a year ago | (#44753999)

Michael Meeks has announced that the core of SUSE's LibreOffice team is moving over to Collabora

Is that in French Polynesia?

Conditional formatting (1)

MrL0G1C (867445) | about a year ago | (#44754245)

Conditional formatting, fix it please, even when starting from scratch with a new Calc document, it's horribly broken - starts off ok, but after a bit of copying and pasting such as when making shift patterns, it all goes completely haywire and becomes unusable :-(. Every time (v 4.1.0.2.0 Sept 2013)

Where's Baghdad Rob? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44754619)

Rooooooob where aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaare you? [slashdot.org] It must be annoying you can't rant about a Novell conspiracy to steal OpenOffice from the rightful owners at IBM^WApache^WIBM.

Oh look, he is so quick off the mark he went to troll the version of this story that didn't make it out of the queue [slashdot.org] . Well done, the marketing team will credit that if you don't tell them that no-one will see it without my link.

SUSE does an Oracle (0, Troll)

Palestrina (715471) | about a year ago | (#44754947)

It sounds like SUSE, the largest contributor to LibreOffice, is ending their investment in LibreOffice, and their engineers are looking for new employment. This echos the way they got out of the Mono business a few years ago. But taking the same people and putting them in a much smaller company, with far less enterprise sales experience, is not something that will cause Microsoft to lose any sleep.

Re:SUSE does an Oracle (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44755101)

Hi, Rob! (Everyone, this is Rob Weir from IBM, posting in his role as marketer at IBM^W^W^W^W^W^W^Wentirely on his own behalf, yessirree.)

as far as i'm concerned (0)

houbou (1097327) | about a year ago | (#44755525)

I had the displeasure of having to use libre office and open office and I can say that I would rather pay for Microsoft Office which I do, then use free Libre/Open office.

Why?

Wasted too many times with the bizarre quirks of libre/open office. Time is money. Stability is important and these application as about 1 yr ago, weren't all that stable. I had to work with training material which had text and graphics, etc., nothing to major, but can be large docs and I had a hard time dealing with all kinds of issues.

Now there will be a for profit version? LOL.. can't even get me to use the free one.. This should be interesting to see where things will lead.

Re:as far as i'm concerned (1)

paulatz (744216) | about a year ago | (#44756135)

I had the displeasure of having to use libre office and open office and I can say that I would rather pay for Microsoft Office which I don't, then use free Libre/Open office.

Fixed that for you

Re:as far as i'm concerned (1)

houbou (1097327) | about a year ago | (#44758433)

No, I actually do pay for MS Office.. It's an important tool and I pay for it.

Re:as far as i'm concerned (1)

paulatz (744216) | about a year ago | (#44760857)

I know a few people who use non-pirate copies of microsoft office, but nobody who actually pays for it with money out of his own wallet. This does not exclude that you do of course, but will you keep paying now that they want you to subscribe for it?

Re:as far as i'm concerned (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44756285)

Bug reports or it didn''t happen.

Srsly. Every article anywhere on LibreOffice or OpenOffice has this sorta bullshit comment that claims all sortsa shit in a way that no-one can verify.

Produce your bug reports, with sample documents or screenshots or instructions to reproduce or ANYTHING THE LEAST BIT VERIFIABLE. Or it just didn't happen.

Re:as far as i'm concerned (0)

cinnamon colbert (732724) | about a year ago | (#44757883)

why bother to file a bug report for software that is still in pre alpha
What is the point ?
To take just one of many, many examples: a straightforward task should be pasting a bitmap into a document program like writer or word
This works in word, altho the large number of poorly documented options makes it difficult for the new user to understand; on the other hand, for almost every MS office question, there are one or two good websites, so 5 minutes on google usually produces an answer.
with writer, this just didn't work
why shoud i bother with a bug report on a program that isn't ready ?

Re:as far as i'm concerned (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44761527)

If you need to insert any type of graphic you should not be using a shitty app like Word.

You need Latex. You tell it where it goes and it doesn't move(unless you move it) no matter how much you edit it.

As a bonus you get a great looking document, far better than what Word can produce.

Re:as far as i'm concerned (1)

houbou (1097327) | about a year ago | (#44758443)

Well, I have submitted a long time ago, the bugs which happened, but, that's over 1 yr ago and the truth is, after 2 months of fighting with the software, I got my boss to pay for a full license of MS Office. Now you think after all this time I'm going to a copy of these issues, especially when the moment I started to use MS Office, I had no more headaches to deal with? :) You gotta be kidding me.

clueless management (0)

cinnamon colbert (732724) | about a year ago | (#44757485)

Quote
  'It seems to me that the ability to say "no" to profitable but peripheral business in order to strategically focus the company is a really important management task
unquote
no SH** Bosco; learning to focus on business with higher margin is something you should have engraved on your forehead on like, the first day of work.

Anyway, aside from the fanboys, everytime i try librre/open office, the don't work
I know, ymmv
About two months ago, I downloaded the latest open office clone and tried something real simple: paste a bitmap into a word document
this works sort of ok in MS office; doesn't work at all in OO

The whole thing is idiotic: the money is in corporate; if they want features they will go for MS suite, which OO will never touch; if they want cloud, google
If you want cheap, you can get last years MS suite off of ebay at very low cost

I just don't see why anyone bothers with OO

Re:clueless management (1)

Absolutely.Geek (2913529) | about a year ago | (#44763215)

Was going to mod you troll....but eh....so I just tried your example. New writer doc, opened a .bmp file in a photo viewer....ctrl+c...switch to writer ctrl+v and there it is a bitmap pasted into writer.

So exactly what part are you having difficulty with? Are you trolling or is this a real difficulty for you?

As a side note, this method works with .jpg and .png files....I didn't have any convinent files with other extensions.

Re:clueless management (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44764843)

re your "?"
I don't know
I don't know how to convicne you that I am not a troll and actually tried this
I also don't know how to go back to this post in a few days, after I have had a chance to download and install libre again
all I can say, is that i more or less tried what you say, and it didn't work
so, maybe i'm the dufus here

Check for New Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?