OpenSUSE 12.1 Released 174
MasterPatricko writes "The openSUSE project is proud to present the release of openSUSE 12.1! This release represents more than eight months of work by our international community and brings you the best Free Software has to offer. Improvements include the latest GNOME 3.2 desktop as well as the newest from KDE, XFCE and LXDE; your ownCloud made easy with mirall; Snapper-shots of your file system on btrfs; and much, much more. Other notable changes include moving from sysvinit to systemd, improving the boot process, and being built on GCC 4.6.2 including link-time optimization. More packages than ever are available from the openSUSE instance of the Open Build Service, and soon you'll be able to create customized respins on SUSE Studio."
Woot! (Score:1, Funny)
Woot! All 3 users are jizzing in unison over this announcement!
Re:Woot! (Score:5, Funny)
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Nope. 3 again: I got back to SUSE from Debian.
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2 again. I switched to Apple.
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I actually did, switched from OpenSUSS 11.4 to a Hackintosh, don't ever want to go back (unless the ghost of steve jobs comes to haunt me, then I may consider it)
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2 again. I switched to Apple.
You don't count then.
Actually (Score:2)
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Hmm, I use to use Mandriva (Mandrake before that) and am on kubuntu now. It's been well over ten years since I tried SUSE, iirc the only probelm I had with it was a flaky video driver, and from what I've seen since I'm pretty sure they've patched that one up. I'll have to give it another try.
Wouldn't you know it, I just upgraded my kubuntu box over the weekend. Oh, well.
I was happy to find that the latest kubuntu has Samba turned on by default, and was able to see shares from my win 7 notebook, and then at
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It's optional, though, and not enabled by default.
Re:Woot! (Score:4, Interesting)
I assume you have never actually used openSUSE.
Its a European distro so is never on the American "list" of distos that are recommend to try. Novel going with microsoft never helped though that's the excuse to troll it now rather than having any current justification that MS has effected openSUSE.
Nope, I tried SuSE (Score:5, Interesting)
Ultimately I ended up using Ubuntu, because at one point there was a controversy over Fedora with regards to versions not being supported very long or at all, or being bleeding-edge-only, and I wanted something a little more stable. I also got bogged down in RPM hell because I did want to try certain packages that were not officially supported, and repositories that packaged them didn't have common dependencies, and although I tried compiling the software myself, there were compile issues I had trouble resolving for certain software.
Now I'm trying out Debian, to gain experience and progress in my knowledge of the GNU/Linux platform on something that's not too far off from what I'm using now.
Re:Nope, I tried SuSE (Score:4, Interesting)
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I am referring to home desktop usage as I assume the OP was. Such as in i don't like Ubuntu/fedora /. recommends fedora/Ubuntu and if you don't like that try Mint/Debian and if those fail well you wont like Arch/gentoo so you may as well go back to windows. Notice that openSUSE is ignored. I think opensuse should be the second recommended 'fall-back', after 'fedora/Ubuntu'.
I didn't want to use SuSE because you did everything through their proprietary configuration interface (YaST), and I wanted to learn a more "standard" way of doing things that would apply to all distros.
I'm fairly sure for some (possibly all Yast appears to read config files for the options) options is just a front end to a config file w
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That would be SLES not OpenSuSE.
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Sorry, but you want the "Trolling Ubuntu" arti
I may give this a go... (Score:4, Interesting)
Plus, the last time I used JAD 1.0 (based on Suse) it was rock solid. Anybody know the specifics of what's installed besides desktop environs? That seems to be all they've listed at their site.
Re:I may give this a go... (Score:5, Informative)
Snapper/btrfs (Score:1)
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it is definitely not production ready.
It doesn't have a fsck tool yet, which means any kind of inconsistency will make your fs unusable.
there is a btfs fsck out already, but it only detects corruption, and doesn't fix it (the major problem).
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Same here, have been wanting something like this for ages - as easy as taking a VirtualBox snapshot and rolling back. Perfect for testing those software installs that might screw up your system. Great for supporting users as well.
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I beg your pardon (Score:4, Funny)
They never promised you a rose garden.
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https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=rosegarden&project=multimedia%3Aapps
I see that 12.1 is not a enabled buildtarget yet, but it probably will be real soon.
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It's not in the main repository, but there is a Rosegarden package in one of the additional repositories - http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Education/openSUSE_12.1/ [opensuse.org].
Package search is helpful:
http://software.opensuse.org/search?q=rosegarden&baseproject=openSUSE%3A12.1&lang=en&exclude_debug=true [opensuse.org]
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It's not in the main repository, but there is a Rosegarden package in one of the additional repositories - http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Education/openSUSE_12.1/ [opensuse.org].
Package search is helpful: http://software.opensuse.org/search?q=rosegarden&baseproject=openSUSE%3A12.1&lang=en&exclude_debug=true [opensuse.org]
Thanks for that! I was looking under the multimedia section - silly me.
Seriously, thanks.
Re:I may give this a go... (Score:4, Interesting)
In particular, it was the first program that offered me a concise but inclusive list of all the commands that I would need on my system, and the packages that provide them, before going on to compile at all. No crappy 'configure, oops you're missing this, retry' business. If only this requirement had been made a gnu standard ages ago!
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Yes there is, it's in the Education repository. You can find it by going to http://software.opensuse.org/ [opensuse.org] and searching for 'rosegarden'.
Unfortuantely opensuse still operates a two-tier repository system where packages go into a 'devel' repository with similar packages (the list can be seen here http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/ [opensuse.org]) and only get moved into the main distro repository (called 'oss') if someone promises to maintain them. (Even though of course not all packages in the main repo are well m
Have your pet spayed or neutered (Score:3, Interesting)
Is it me or has Gnome 3x neutered the desktop? When I first used Gnome 3 with F15 I really liked the clean and cutting edge look. But 15 minutes later I choked on the fact that Gnome 3 had me bent over and handcuffed... doing things the way they wanted.
I looked at the screenshot and couldn't really tell if I was looking at Fedora or openSUSE, save the open browser content.
I LOVE what Linux Mint has done. They've incorporated the best of Gnome 3 and greatly improve the experience.
Oh, and YEAH for openSUSE, high-five!
Re:Have your pet spayed or neutered (Score:5, Interesting)
I looked at the screenshot and couldn't really tell if I was looking at Fedora or openSUSE, save the open browser content.
This is by design. The Gnome developers want all Gnome installations to look exactly the same. Jon McCan't even said in an interview that he doesn't want you using any themes or customizing your Gnome desktop in any way, because this diminishes Gnome's look, and other people watching you at your computer won't be able to tell it's Gnome. Basically, the Gnome devs are trying to copy Apple and their totally non-customizable UIs, thinking that if it works for Apple, then it'll work for them too.
Re:Have your pet spayed or neutered (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmmm, I never did like Gnome. This makes me like it even less. IMO the best thing about Linux is unlike Windows, it works the way YOU want it to work. With MS (and from what you say, now GNOME) it's their way or the highway. Nope, it's MY computer, not some gnome's box.
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100% agree.
This is why fvwm, xmonad, ratpoison, etc all exist. The unix philosophy has always been that the user is king. I like it that way, and I dislike some of the recent trends.
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"Jon McCan't even said in an interview that he doesn't want you using any themes or customizing your Gnome desktop in any way, because this diminishes Gnome's look, and other people watching you at your computer won't be able to tell it's Gnome."
That's a fine reason to work against Gnome and steer new users away from it. "It's a half-arsed Apple imitation by fanbois who hate choice as much as Apple."
If they want Apple they should BUY Apple and get the "good" parts of that walled garden.
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Re:Gnome has always been neutered (Score:4, Informative)
Bump this up :-)
Sawfish was one of my absolute favorite window managers of all time! I fought with the gnome desktop env to get sawfish back in place on my box for years after they made the metacity switch, and only recently gave up (was just starting up a gnome-panel on login, and considering that my desktop env - no desktop icon manager thing either). Now with gnome 3 sprouting up everywhere, it's looking like LXDE, XFCE, or going back to sawfish.
If you haven't mucked with customizing sawfish (which is super easy to do via the gui), I'd suggest giving it a try. My favorite thing was being able to change the window decorations based on numerous window attribute matches - like all xterms get one style/color of border, and other stuff gets something else, etc... made it very easy to visually spot classes of apps, and allowed me to put thicker window borders on stuff I'd regularly resize (ex. gimp windows; easier to mouse grab) and minimal borders on things I don't need to muck with (ex. IM windows).
Keybindings and configurable actions were very sweet too, and could be set to specific scenarios (when mouse is over desktop, do this thing, but when mouse is over window, do something else, etc, including basing that on window classes so shortcuts could be app-specific).
Looks like it's still actively developed too. If interested: http://sawfish.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page [wikia.com]
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--I really liked sawfish as well. If you like minimalist WMs, I can recommend trying Fluxbox.
downloads truncate (Score:2)
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Use the metalink though a download manager, aria2c worked last time.
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Horray! Oh wait GNOME 3... (Score:1)
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There will be repos in multiple locations roll back to Gnome 2.
I suspect they will not be found on the front page yet though.
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There might even be a version of KDE3.x in a repo somewhere if you really want to see openSUSE doing what it did best.
buzzword bingo (Score:2)
distros are so 90's
It works nicely! (Score:2, Interesting)
I've been using it on x86 and x86-64 systems for a month or so and it is working quite well.
The announcement above neglected to mention that its running the 3.1.0 kernel and that plus the new compiler/libraries will make life interesting for those of us that live and work in the IT world. Other updates like systemd will also have interesting consequences. Most apps seem fairly happy living and playing on 12.1 however those using CommVault may expect some real pain.
For those that use RHEL and SLES/SLED in
KDE 3 back as DE choice (Score:4, Interesting)
Given the general negative reception of GNOME 3 (and Unity and to a lesser extend still also KDE 4), it surprises me that I haven't seen it much mentioned on the net that KDE 3 is back as a DE choice. Now if only the MATE (GNOME 2 continuation) was also included...
Re:KDE 3 back as DE choice (Score:5, Informative)
As far as I've heard, the only negative reception KDE 4 still gets is from people who haven't used it since 4.1 was released.
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i'm using 4.6. i still regularly see tasks overlapping in the taskbar, kmix ends up with some binary crap in xml and then decides to stop working & eat 100% cpu, upon startup it does "something" for good 10 to 15 seconds before i can launch any apps, notes plasmoid right now has part of the text invisible, network statistic plamsoids/widgets/whatever are still way worse than knetstats was for kde3...
kde4 is usable, and some features are nice. but damn, 3.5.10 was rock solid. kde4 still has way, way too
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"oh, and there's one long lasting bug even since kde3 - ctrl+shift+c to copy from konsole doesn't put the value in klipper :)"
I just tried it right then on an Opensuse 11.4 system (KDE 4.6) and it works.
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it does not. i have 11.4 with kde 4.6, and it does not work :)
see https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=126221 [kde.org], which maybe, maybe is finally fixed in 4.7 as https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=240912 [kde.org]
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It does work, as I said I just tried it. Doesn't mean there's not a bug there but it's something specific to your configuration or what you're doing.
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oh, yes, possible. if you check the history of the first issue, multiple people couldn't reproduce the problem, but then some could.
one thing which might affect this - i have "ignore selection" marked in klipper
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Maybe I will try (Score:1)
Microsoft Zealot Here... (Score:4, Interesting)
So, I'm struggling with the basics, but learning a little every day. Does anyone know a decent Windows-Linux Conversion guide which explains the parallels between the two - such as how to install drivers, where the hell is 'Program Files', what do I do if I want to install software but it's not an rpm or whatever it is suse uses. (Damn, I miss MSIs & EXEs!)
Also, is there any mail client I can use to connect to my exchange server for work email? (using MAPI \ RPC over HTTPS)
This is quite a lot of fun, and I've noticed that it seems to render flash video nicer than windows, BBC iPlayer HD is a bit stuttery on windows, but is smooth as silk over here.
Any hints and tips gratefully received!
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Does anyone know a decent Windows-Linux Conversion guide which explains the parallels between the two - such as how to install drivers, where the hell is 'Program Files', what do I do if I want to install software but it's not an rpm or whatever it is suse uses. (Damn, I miss MSIs & EXEs!)
Drivers are always an issue in Linux. You said everything works, what divers do you want? If you want the system tray config options gui chances are the hardware manufacturer does not support Linux.
You really want to find the (preferably SUSE) RPM to install something (its much tidier) if not you generally need to follow the instructions on the website for the software you want to install. If they don't want to support openSuSE then you are on your own and need to Google for someone who has made it work.
Re:Microsoft Zealot Here... (Score:5, Informative)
> MS Zealot here
Liar. You're no zealot. ;P
> Does anyone know a decent Windows-Linux Conversion guide which explains the parallels between the two - such as how to install drivers, where the hell is
> 'Program Files',
In POSIX systems (Linux, Unix, BSD, QNX, Mac OS X in some cases, et al), files are split up depending on their role. You know how your settings go in "%APPDATA%\", libraries to in "%SYSTEMROOT%" and other stuff goes in "%PROGRAMFILES%\"? Well, in these systems, it is split up moreso, Generally, all binaries (the executable files) go into "$PREFIX/bin/", global configuration files go into "$PREFIX/etc/", unchanging data files go into "$PREFIX/share/", libraries go into "$PREFIX/lib", log files and changing system files (the print spool, for instance) go into "/var/". Just like in Windows, the system magically handles it all. (note: $PREFIX is usually "/usr", but it is sometimes something else -- I won't get into it here, but there are pretty good reasons for this).
> what do I do if I want to install software but it's not an rpm or whatever it is suse uses. (Damn, I miss MSIs & EXEs!)
That's a weird one. What do you do if it's not an msi or an exe in a Windows system?
rpm is the equivalent of msi, except that the package management is generally easier to work with. In suse, you go into Yast's "Software Management" app and it will list most programs (several thousand, generally, organized in categories and easily searchable) that people would need to install. Think of it as "Windows Update", but instead of offering programs that Microsoft makes, it offers programs that everyone makes (or like an app store, except that it's been in Linux for over a decade and doesn't cost money). On the command line, the equivalent is "zypper". You'd type "sudo zypper install firefox", for example, and firefox would be updated. But anyway, if you're using Yast, I suggest going into the "Software Repositories" section, clicking the "Add" button, choosing the "Community Repositories" radio button, and clicking next. The "Packman" repository is highly recommended, as it has a lot of apps that the suse people lack.
rpm files are what you use as an *alternate* solution if the program is not in an available repository, not as your primary means of installing stuff. Repositories can manage installation of prerequisites. You might have tried to install a program requiring .NET in Windows at one point and received an error stating that it was not installed. In the repositories, and situations like that would be subverted by the repository manager going online and downloading/installing what it needs to install the package you actually want.
Sometimes, a developer will release the equivalent of an exe installer for their product. nvidia is an example. This is a TERRIBLE IDEA that you sometimes just can't work around. Running an unknown executable as the administrative user is just asking for pain. I know, because one of my scientists here wiped out his server's entire filesystem by running an install script as root, and I had to pick up after him. rpm (in suse, mandriva, pclinuxos, red hat, et al) and deb (in debian, ubuntu, mint, et al) and various others give limited powers which simply allow the application to get its files in the right place and do some basic maintenance (like starting a daemon if it's a server app).
The third option that people seem to think is ubiquitous in Linux (it isn't ... unless it's a hardcore science research app) is that you're given the source code and you have to compile it. In 90% of these cases, the only real problem is that you might not have a prerequisite app or library installed to complete the compilation. Package management helps with that, but it's better to avoid having to do this. Still, most of the examples you just go to the command line, visit the directory, type "./configure && make install" and have some coffee. I don't remembe
Re:Microsoft Zealot Here... (Score:4, Insightful)
Even with the parts about hardware not working, ACPI fans/power management going mad, Flash (diediedie) being good, Exchange integration and almost hitting the "WTF is compile???" (but skirting around it nicely), he still managed to get a +5.
Would that all trolls were as good at eliciting a careful considered and well thought out reply that deals successfully with these issues, that someone might read and find useful.
Kudos to JCholewa for giving such a large FU to all the FUD in the post.
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"Program Files" doesn't really exist. Instead, an environment variable called "PATH" contains a list of commonly used app folders like
No Registry (Score:2)
That alone should make you a happy panda.
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"what do I do if I want to install software but it's not an rpm or whatever it is suse uses. "
In opensuse the 2nd stop for packages is http://software.opensuse.org/ [opensuse.org] as unfortunately not everything that's packaged is in the default repositories.
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Does anyone know a decent Windows-Linux Conversion guide which explains the parallels between the two - such as how to install drivers, where the hell is 'Program Files', what do I do if I want to install software but it's not an rpm or whatever it is suse uses. (Damn, I miss MSIs & EXEs!)
Drivers come with the OS and any that don't, the installation is distribution-specific, this being one of the original defining qualities of say Ubuntu vs. Debian. Where the program files are stores depends on the distribution as well, and you ask the package manager where the package's files are stored; anything that doesn't get integrated into the operating system with its files spread all about is usually placed into a directory in /opt. A deb or rpm is just like an MSI, and the GNU file tool/command wil
I Started Using Tumbleweed A Week Ago... (Score:3, Interesting)
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Baby with the bathwater much?
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You are maybe right. But that does not change my perception. Do you know - image is important. I see now Novell and Microsoft as a couple of conspirators together for whatever reason. Maybe I am 100% wrong, it doesn't matter. It's impossible to get rid of the taint.
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Well that is not particularly true. OpenSuse has always been their own deal, they just get sponsorship dollars from from Novell, not to mention code. And if you go to the website, is still has Novell's logo on the bottom (c) 2008 and the words "Founded By Novell" I still login with my Novell credentials.
Re:choices are good (Score:4, Insightful)
Suse once had great font rendering on LCD screens due to their version of XOrg implementing proper font rendering and hinting.
Cleartype fonts semi existence thanks to the MS deal. They are crippled intentionally and butt ugly on purpose because MS wants you to use Windows instead. I refuse to use SuSE and yes the deal harmed Suse and crippled their own product.
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yes, and it is just one reason. But it is deeper than that. It's about Novell working with MS in principle. I am sure many don't see it that way and they will point fingers here and say: you are biased, a zealot, blah blah.
Well, it's perception, and that is near as important as reality (and in this case it is even more important.)
Once a company is tainted by working with the likes of Microsoft or say Oracle, that's it. Sure, at work many people have to use products from these companies, but that's not what
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Re:choices are good (Score:4, Interesting)
Once a company is tainted by working with the likes of Microsoft or say Oracle, that's it.
Oracle isn't even in the same ballpark as MS. MS has actively been trying to harm Linux and OSS with its patent extortion and racketeering, and only now has someone (Barnes & Noble) finally stood up to them and release the info on the patents in question (which of course have turned out to be totally bogus with tons of prior art not to mention total lack of non-obviousness). MS has been actively hostile to Linux and OSS ever since these became popular, and is only getting worse. What has Oracle done to OSS? Nothing I can think of. They even bought Sun and kept OpenOffice.org as an OSS product; of course, they handled it in a totally incompetent manner causing a fork, and are now throwing in the towel, but this doesn't come close to being a malicious action like those of MS. Oracle hasn't been much of a friend to OSS, but they haven't been much of an enemy of it either. They even have their own Linux distro that they try to push with their proprietary database software. They also bought MySQL and haven't killed that or taken it proprietary either. Honestly, I don't know what's with all the Oracle hatred. They have a few OSS products that they semi-competently (or incompetently for OO.o) handle, they haven't been suing Linux users over bogus patents, what's the problem?
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B-b-but but but Google is good, and Oracle sued them, so Oracle is bad. (I agree on that software patents are really bad.)
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Yeah, those are bad practices. Unfortunately, they seem to be pretty common in most large corporations; they're always going to want to sell you their most expensive crap, and sales reps giving customers game tickets, taking them out for golf, etc. is nothing new.
I had forgotten about the Oracle suit against Google, but still when I look at which company affects me personally the most, it's easily MS because of their constant anti-OSS patent trolling (exfat, android patents, etc.).
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Linus Torvalds has said he has no problems working with MS or any other company. As he put it, "Microsoft hatred is a disease" [arstechnica.com].
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What I did do was point out that even Linus thinks freetards need to grow up, take a bath, and stop hating on the competition.
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Here's a suggestion ... prove the bribes. Lockheed was fined for bribery. It's a criminal activity. So, either prove the bribes or move on.
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Oh looky looky, someone is really angry that when they make an accusation and they're told to back it up or STFU.
You didn't "see anything" in terms of criminal behavior by any such corporation - if you did, and you didn't report it, you're an enabler. Instead, you're just another freetard who can't accept that people like Linus Torvalds have no problem with cooperating with companies like Micros
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The poster in question is doing the "look through the target's last posts" and posting, both under their nic, and because they are in karma hell and limited to only a few posts a day, also anonymously.
I've been through this sort of thing more than a few times, and the people who do it are uniformly immature, no matter what their ages. They really do need to realize that life is a lot more complex, but they can't - they're too psychologically invested in a black-and-white world, with no shades of grey an
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In case you missed it, Microsoft involvement with linux is not history ... the linux kernel team has accepted patches from Microsoft for the 3.0 kernel - so this certainly isn't "just something OLD Suse did". Microsoft made the most changes to the linux 3.0 kernel [slashdot.org] :-)
And of course FreeBSD (and by extension, the others, since they do tend to share) has a ton of code from Apple, as well as code the devs were paid to write by Apple.
Some zealots would say that such cooperation is anathema, but the kernel de
Re:choices are good (Score:4, Interesting)
The reason why Windows fonts look ugly on FreeTypeis because they have embedded hints that are hand-tuned to look pixel-perfect on Windows font rasterizer (with or without ClearType). Unless your font renderer works exactly the same as ClearType, you won't have them looking as good.
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It's not a religion, people.
Right? ...you guys?
RIGHT?
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It doesn't have to be a religion to be disgusted enough with something. I don't have a problem with quite a number of companies (even though I am probably wearing rose colored glasses there as well), but MS and Oracle are two examples of companies that I can't stand in terms of their basic behavior.
I would not deal with them on voluntary basis, why is that a religion? If not dealing with them includes not dealing with large companies who have agreements with those particular businesses, then I don't want to
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What's the problem with Oracle? It's not like they're running around trying to extort money from Linux-based device makers using bogus patents they refuse to reveal. The only thing to be mad at them about is how incompetently they handled OO.o, but it doesn't matter anyway since LO is doing just fine.
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What's the problem with Oracle? It's not like they're running around trying to extort money from Linux-based device makers using bogus patents they refuse to reveal.
It looks very like that to me, except that Oracle went after Google directly. They still want their piece of Android though.
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You don't have to be religious to have an irrational hatred of everything Microsoft. Being an idiot is perfectly sufficient.
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Novell got Microsoft to pay them a big wad of cash and also got Microsoft to encourage companies to install Linux.
Don't you wish every distro could pull off that sort of deal?
Or is it only okay if it's Canonical trying to pull the same sort of deal "give us money and encourage people to use our distro" with Ubuntu and hardware manufacturers?
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Well, at least this time you remembered to check the "post anonymously" box.
Still, your zealotry still makes you a freetard ... you can go back to sucking RMS's ...um ... cheesy toes or something. The rest of us will continue to live in the real world.
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No - I get lots of posts that are modded down to oblivion. I was one of the first to rag on Ubuntu and Canonical when everyone else thought they were the next "great Linux hope", for example. Just like I'm one of the more vocal voices against RMS and his stupidity (and the damage he does to open source).
However, unlike you, many of my posts are seen as offering more than your silly rants - I back up mine w
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Don't like it that most of the people who believe in open source software think that RMS is doing more harm than good with his public demeanor, his lack of personal hygiene, his attitude towards women, children, and families? Too bad, so sad, SUX 2B U.
Don't like it that the people who are actually producing stuff, like Linus Torvalds, said that freetards should grow up and stop the Microsoft-hating? Again, who cares except other freetards.
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No, nowhere in this thread have I even mentioned Oracle, you silly moron. However, YOU have made the claim that both companies are involved in bribing people. I pointed out that bribery is a criminal offense, and that if you have knowledge of such crimes (which you claimed to have) that you had a legal obligation to report it, or you yourself are aiding and abetting - so either you're a liar, or a crook. Your own words condemn you to this Hobson's choice.
So, which are you, a whiney lying freetard who
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Just remember - you started it. Don't start what you can't finish. BTW - we're still waiting for you to produce any evidence for your claims that Oracle or Microsoft have bribed people.
You made the claims, but you're doing everything you can to avoid backing them up. Typical big-mouthed zealot - long on rhetoric, short on facts.
You said you knew of incidents where Oracle or Microsoft had bribed people ... so put up or shut up.
Or you can keep on providing me with opportunities to show how much of a st
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So, either you're a crook yourself - after all, you claim to have seen criminal activity and not reported it - or you're just a lying freetard. Our you're both.
So again, back up your claims about bribes. Liar.
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So, now you want us all to believe that no government ever bought anything from Oracle or Microsoft? You're such an idiot. Keep back-pedaling ... it's fun to watch you drowning in your own BS.
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Again trying to avoid proving what you claimed. You're such a liar, and SO easy to prove you're a liar. PROVE that Oracle or Microsoft bribed someone.
Name names, dates, and the type of gift. Both Microsoft and Oracle have policies about that.
Oracle's Code of Ethics and Business Conduct [oracle.com] - see page 13 - Gifts
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Because we all know now that you're just a lying schmuck, out of your league, can't even get your story straight, every time you try to embellish it or patch a hole in it you just dig yourself in deeper. Amateur. But keep on
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The case you pointed out were against company policy and the people involved were punished. Sort of messes up your lies that the companies do these things. Trying to hold a company responsible for a rogue employee who violates company policy, and fires them when its found out, that's like arguing the post office is responsible when an employee goes postal, or that a school is responsible when a shooter walks in and starts firing. You'll always have problems in any large enough organization.
And remember
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AND it gets better (or worse) ... you STILL claim you've seen Microsoft and Oracle bribe, and you still refuse to give a
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"I stopped reading here."
You should have kept going to the less-painful "sharp stick in the eye" and "hot deep fryer emptied onto crotch".
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