Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

No More Need To Reboot Fedora w/ Ksplice

CmdrTaco posted more than 4 years ago | from the stacking-your-nines dept.

Red Hat Software 262

An anonymous reader writes "Ksplice, the technology that allows Linux kernel updates without a reboot, is now free for users of the Fedora distribution. Using Ksplice is like 'replacing your car's engine while speeding down the highway,' and it can potentially save your Linux systems from a lot of downtime. Since Fedora users often live on the bleeding edge of Linux development, Ksplice makes it even easier to do so, and without reboots!"

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Awesome! (5, Funny)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429330)

But do the windows "snap" to one side of the screen? See? Simple! ($100 please)

Re:Awesome! (2, Interesting)

armanox (826486) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429424)

They've done that for years.

Re:Awesome! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429538)

uhh, he knows that.

Re:Awesome! (1)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429556)

uh. whoosh.

Re:Awesome! (4, Funny)

AhabTheArab (798575) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430026)

That was MY idea. I thought of it on my own and e-mailed Microsoft to tell them to make my PC simpler - and you know what? They did!

Hey...wait a minute.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33430138)

I've always been told by the Linux fan-bois that they haven't rebooted their computers since 1847. I thought Linux never needed a reboot already. Who do these Ksplice people think they are fooling?

Re:Awesome! (1)

orient (535927) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430218)

In Mandriva they do.

Frosty (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429332)

Piss?

Re:Frosty (0, Offtopic)

rwa2 (4391) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429752)

Too early. The next story on whiskey made from urine was brewed specifically for you, though.

Hmm... (2, Funny)

jgagnon (1663075) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429336)

Changing your car's oil while driving down the highway could be tricky, too.

Re:Hmm... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429648)

All you gotta do is have a skateboard, a rope, a small person, and a lot of oil. Rope goes around the skateboard, small person goes on the skateboard, passenger opens hood, you look out the window and drive, passenger opens the oil and starts pouring as fast as he can, small person opens the drain while under the car, oil drains out and passenger keeps pouring until the oil leaking out goes from black to bronze. Wha La, a moving oil change. Think outside the box like this guy did.

Re:Hmm... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429758)

It's voilà [wiktionary.org] . How hard is it to not look like a moron?

Re:Hmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429980)

You'd be amazed. Apparently it is, for some, enormously difficult.

Re:Hmm... (1)

by (1706743) (1706744) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429726)

Actually, with a dry sump [wikipedia.org] and a clever dual-oil filter setup, this probably wouldn't be too hard. Granted, it wouldn't change all the oil -- only the oil in the reservoir + filter.

Re:Hmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429840)

Not really I just drive it off road in Florida, oil change is automatic that way!

Now this is even more applicable (5, Funny)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429362)

Re:Now this is even more applicable (1, Informative)

odies (1869886) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429410)

Well it's an old technique actually. kexec have been there for ages.

Re:Now this is even more applicable (1)

0100010001010011 (652467) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429610)

Well it's an old technique actually. kexec have been there for ages.

How does this compare to kexec actually? I've been using it for a long time on all my Debian machines and while it's not 'instant' skipping all the BIOS, it's damn fast.

Re:Now this is even more applicable (2, Informative)

quercus.aeternam (1174283) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430076)

kexec restarts the entire software stack while leaving hardware running.

From what I can tell, ksplice does not require a software restart or hardware restart. This isn't explicitly stated, but it is implied by the usage instructions: http://www.ksplice.com/uptrack/using [ksplice.com]

Re:Now this is even more applicable (1)

RulerOf (975607) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430152)

I imagine that the kernel is upgraded without ever actually stopping. Kexec actually switches the CPU from long or protected mode back down to real mode and then invokes your new kernel. It's a particularly neat trick for acquiring or manipulating any BIOS based x86 system with a Linux kernel prior to invoking NTLDR or the Windows Boot Manager.

A fellow named John Stumpo wrote a Windows driver called WinKexec [jstump.com] for doing a Kexec from Windows. I compiled it but never did get it to work. Something about the INT10(?) calls seemed to make my test systems hate life :P

planet prepares for complete reboot (coldstart) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429384)

not that it's stuff that matters or meriting discussion. carry on.

meanwhile (so long as dick's heart still beats & paul can write on the nyt's, glowbull warmongering is still a safe 'profession'); the corepirate nazi illuminati is always hunting that patch of red on almost everyones' neck. if they cannot find yours (greed, fear ego etc...) then you can go starve. that's their (slippery/slimy) 'platform' now. see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

never a better time to consult with/trust in our creators. the lights are coming up rapidly all over now. see you there?

greed, fear & ego (in any order) are unprecedented evile's primary weapons. those, along with deception & coercion, helps most of us remain (unwittingly?) dependent on its' life0cidal hired goons' agenda. most of our dwindling resources are being squandered on the 'wars', & continuation of the billionerrors stock markup FraUD/pyramid schemes. nobody ever mentions the real long term costs of those debacles in both life & any notion of prosperity for us, or our children. not to mention the abuse of the consciences of those of us who still have one, & the terminal damage to our atmosphere (see also: manufactured 'weather', hot etc...). see you on the other side of it? the lights are coming up all over now. the fairytail is winding down now. let your conscience be your guide. you can be more helpful than you might have imagined. we now have some choices. meanwhile; don't forget to get a little more oxygen on your brain, & look up in the sky from time to time, starting early in the day. there's lots going on up there.

"The current rate of extinction is around 10 to 100 times the usual background level, and has been elevated above the background level since the Pleistocene. The current extinction rate is more rapid than in any other extinction event in earth history, and 50% of species could be extinct by the end of this century. While the role of humans is unclear in the longer-term extinction pattern, it is clear that factors such as deforestation, habitat destruction, hunting, the introduction of non-native species, pollution and climate change have reduced biodiversity profoundly.' (wiki)

"I think the bottom line is, what kind of a world do you want to leave for your children," Andrew Smith, a professor in the Arizona State University School of Life Sciences, said in a telephone interview. "How impoverished we would be if we lost 25 percent of the world's mammals," said Smith, one of more than 100 co-authors of the report. "Within our lifetime hundreds of species could be lost as a result of our own actions, a frightening sign of what is happening to the ecosystems where they live," added Julia Marton-Lefevre, IUCN director general. "We must now set clear targets for the future to reverse this trend to ensure that our enduring legacy is not to wipe out many of our closest relatives."--

"The wealth of the universe is for me. Every thing is explicable and practical for me .... I am defeated all the time; yet to victory I am born." --emerson

no need to confuse 'religion' with being a spiritual being. our soul purpose here is to care for one another. failing that, we're simply passing through (excess baggage) being distracted/consumed by the guaranteed to fail illusionary trappings of man'kind'. & recently (about 10,000 years ago) it was determined that hoarding & excess by a few, resulted in negative consequences for all.

consult with/trust in your creators. providing more than enough of everything for everyone (without any distracting/spiritdead personal gain motives), whilst badtolling unprecedented evile, using an unlimited supply of newclear power, since/until forever. see you there?

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." )one does not need to agree whois in charge to grasp the notion that there may be some assistance available to us(

boeing, boeing, gone.
 

It's free? (1)

joshier (957448) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429392)

Isn't everything in linux?

Re:It's free? (1)

jgagnon (1663075) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429416)

Slight motto change:

Free as in prostitute.

Re:It's free? (1)

tokul (682258) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429522)

Isn't everything in linux?

Some non-free commercial software runs on linux.

Re:It's free? (3, Informative)

cwrinn (1282510) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429598)

Great job reading the article... "The service for Fedora and Ubuntu Desktop is free of charge. For other distributions, the subscription fee starts at $3.95 per system a month, after a 30-day free trial."

LOL Linux users (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429408)

Why don't you fools just buy a mac and get it done? You people spend SO much time trying to replicate the advanced technology of OS X with bizarre unusable hacks like this, why not simply buy a mac and get REAL WORK DONE?

Re:LOL Linux users (1)

osiris247 (1178517) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429464)

Because most people here have more brains than money.

So... (2, Interesting)

mark72005 (1233572) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429674)

Linux user = more brains than money
Mac user = more money than brains
Windows user = ...?

Re:So... (1)

ThatMegathronDude (1189203) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429702)

Windows user = spread across the range

Re:So... (5, Funny)

Ironhandx (1762146) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429728)

Windows user is middle of the road. He has brains and money but not enough of either.

Re:So... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429734)

Windows user = a poverty of both

Re:So... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429750)

Linux user = more brains than money Mac user = more money than brains Windows user = ...?

Linux user = more time than money
Mac user = more money than brains
Windows user = more money than time, less brains than Linux

FTFY. HTH.

Re:So... (1)

Anarke_Incarnate (733529) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430156)

Windows user = BRAAAAAAAAINS!!!

Ok, so they probably ARE zombies, used for all sorts of nasty DDoS attacks or other types of botnets :)

Re:So... (1)

Seth Kriticos (1227934) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430304)

Well, Windows users usually don't directly play this game, but are used as playing figures.

Re:LOL Linux users (1)

jgagnon (1663075) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429466)

If it is REAL WORK then you're doing it wrong. :p

Re:LOL Linux users (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429490)

Price?

Re:LOL Linux users (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429864)

How much is your time worth? Would you rather spend it recompiling your kernel or getting actual work done?

Scary analogy (5, Insightful)

Xest (935314) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429456)

"Using Ksplice is like 'replacing your car's engine while speeding down the highway,'"

So in other words it's something you'd never want to risk doing because it'd almost certainly cause a crash?

I think they should've thought about a different analogy for this one...

Re:Scary analogy (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429480)

Using Ksplice is like changing your tampon while speeding down the highway

Re:Scary analogy (4, Funny)

EkriirkE (1075937) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429622)

It makes a bloody mess? I don't know about that...

Well, not unless you shove it up your... (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429824)

Using Ksplice is like changing your tampon while speeding down the highway

As in it's something that's unnecessary (if not nonsensical) for the majority of drivers/users anyway?

Re:Scary analogy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429766)

The analogy works. It tells you this:

What you can't do with cars, you CAN do with Fedora (ANALOGICALLY).

Re:Scary analogy (4, Insightful)

natehoy (1608657) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429786)

True. The in-place kernel upgrade is somewhat safer than their analogy might imply, but it does lead to an interesting point. Why would you want to do this?

Personally, I'm OK with having to reboot my Linux machine when I change kernels, mostly because it's the only time Linux DOES ask me to reboot. To be fair, Microsoft and especially third party Windows software vendors have gotten a lot better about this in the last few years, so infrequent need to reboot is now a pretty solid feature on both Windows and Linux.

In any case, when I get a new kernel, I can install the new kernel and continue running along on the old one as long as I wish to, then reboot to apply the new kernel at a convenient time. Rebooting Linux Mint takes less than a minute from powerdown to login, and I know I haven't run into any risky process locks or anything during the upgrade process. Plus, I like the fact that the "older" kernel is always available to me on the boot menu in case something goes horribly wrong with the new one.

But I'm not all that uptight about "uptime". It's a home computer. If I have to reboot it once a month or so to apply the latest kernel, I'll reboot it. For my purposes, I don't see any added value for the extra risk (however slight) an "in-place upgrade" would introduce.

If I were running a "must be up 24/7" machine, I could see this as a benefit, but chances are at that point I've load-balanced a couple of machines and the cluster can stand a "rolling reboot" of the machines far better than it could stand a botched upgrade.

I still love the idea, and applaud the folks who managed it, but I don't think I see a real reason for it other than "wow, that's pretty nifty". It doesn't seem possible without introducing at least a little bit of risk, and it doesn't seem that the people who would really need it would be all that tolerant of the risk.

Re:Scary analogy (5, Informative)

jimmyharris (605111) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430162)

If your server only takes a few minutes to reboot, then I can see why you wouldn't be so concerned about having to reboot for kernel upgrades. We have Oracle and Sybase database servers that take over 90 minutes to start up all their services (these are 16 and 32 core machines) and not having to reboot them for kernel updates would be a huge win for us.

Re:Scary analogy (4, Funny)

Spad (470073) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429792)

They should have stuck with their original slogan: "Using Ksplice is like updating your kernel without rebooting"

Re:Scary analogy (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429812)

Well let's be honest here, the risk/gain isn't exactly working out for stable enterprise uses. They want people that can show off all the crazy things you can do with a computer and are willing to risk that their machine could go down. If they get it working for enough people over time, then it'll spread as people like the convenience of reboot-less upgrades. But right now, I'd say their analogy is just right for the market, it's the nerd version of the teenage drivers who play chicken.

Re:Scary analogy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33430282)

Well let's be honest here, the risk/gain isn't exactly working out for stable enterprise uses.

Exactly backwards.

This feature replicates what mainframes have been doing for years. Specifically because businesses want zero downtime, if possible.

Re:Scary analogy (1)

Spad (470073) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429876)

Maybe the bomb will go off if you drop below 50mph...

how about is linux with memory leaks? (1, Interesting)

Joe The Dragon (967727) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429460)

how about is linux with memory leaks? is the base os good? what about X? most of the apps? what about apps get stuck in background that need a reboot to unload?

Re:how about is linux with memory leaks? (2, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429514)

WTF are you talking about? Kill -9 gets rid of apps if you really need too, rebooting is for windows users.

Re:how about is linux with memory leaks? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429550)

WTF are you talking about? Kill -9 gets rid of apps if you really need too, rebooting is for windows users.

Ideally, kill -9 gets rid of them. Sometimes it won't.

Re:how about is linux with memory leaks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429614)

If not... you need a kernel update!

Re:how about is linux with memory leaks? (3, Insightful)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429652)

Unless they are in uninterruptible sleep.

Re:how about is linux with memory leaks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429746)

In which case, use kill from root.

Re:how about is linux with memory leaks? (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33430122)

Processes in the 'D' state cannot be killed, even by root. They're waiting on I/O and nothing short of giving them the I/O they're waiting for or rebooting will kill them.

Re:how about is linux with memory leaks? (0, Troll)

Sir_Lewk (967686) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430190)

SIGKILL dude, `kill -9 pid` will take care of it...

unless you are referring to zombie processes, in which case: who cares? [linuxsa.org.au] They don't consume shit for resources, and they almost never happen unless you go out of your way to make it happen.

Re:how about is linux with memory leaks? (4, Informative)

vadim_t (324782) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430294)

No, the grandparent means uninterruptible sleep.

Processes sleep in a way that can't be interrupted in some cases. For instance, when writing to a file. The logic of that that if it was possible, the application would have to retry the interrupted call, and since a write is assumed to be uninterruptible nobody tries to check if it was interrupted.

This ocassionally creates problems, like when something in the disk subsystem goes wonky, and a write call never returns, leaving the process sleeping and unkillable forever.

There was a patch [lwn.net] to create a killable state, that allows fatal signals to be processed in such cases, since the process would die immediately anyway. I'm not sure how fully is this integrated, but while I remember unkillable processes in the past, I don't think I had any in the last couple of years.

Re:how about is linux with memory leaks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429710)

Not only applications can possibly leak memory, but the kernel itself, too.

Re:how about is linux with memory leaks? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33430316)

WTF are you talking about? Kill -9 gets rid of apps if you really need too, rebooting is for windows users.

Unless it's gone down a a rat hole in the I/O sub-system and the process won't get the signal to die until the syscall returns (which it never does in the case of hardware problems, or network issues in the case of NFS).

I've come across quite a few unkillable processes on various Unix flavours.

interesting (3, Interesting)

idontgno (624372) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429476)

this may be based on Free software (residing in the machine needing its kernel patched), but it appears that patch preparation is based on a subscription service provided by the Ksplice Uptrack people. That's the part which is (selectively) free-as-in-beer. This isn't organic to the kernel or the normal methods of kernel updating.

That means there's libre-free software and a service provided by a non-distro company which is, for selected distros, gratis-free. For now.

The technical description sounds like the ancient OS patching techniques the old mainframes I used to work on used.

And frankly, I'd still feel a little more comfortable with a reboot, since I'd worry a bit about state consistency of kernel and client processes. But, I guess smarter people than me says it OK, so what do I know?

Re:interesting (4, Interesting)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429676)

When you have around 1500 production servers to patch, such as with the memmap 0 bug last year, doing them one-by-one, or even in small batches, remotely over IP KVM takes a long-ass time. This is nice for those types of situations.

Re:interesting (2, Funny)

vlm (69642) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429780)

When you have around 1500 production servers to patch, such as with the memmap 0 bug last year, doing them one-by-one, or even in small batches, remotely over IP KVM takes a long-ass time.

One single line using pssh, dsh, dish, or no lines at all when using a very fancied up puppet configuration?

Do you like toggle in boot code over the IP KVM like a PDP-8 or what?

The ability to do something the hard way, does not prove the lack of existence of an easier way.

Re:interesting (2, Interesting)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429822)

OK, you see how all of those things still lead to doing a reboot? Now, imagine automating the process AND using ksplice. And I agree that automating the process would have been super awesome, but unfortunately that's just the sort of design process and forethought which was shunned at the place I worked at that time. So I left.

Re:interesting (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430034)

unfortunately that's just the sort of design process and forethought which was shunned at the place I worked at that time.

Ouch man, ouch. In the networking world we call that situation trying to solve a simple layer-8 problem using a very complicated layer-1 solution (or various other combos of numbers). I'm guessing rebooting was unacceptable because you had no backups / load balancers / load levelers / checkpointers / heartbeat monitor / hot standby disaster recovery / replication systems. Most places, reboots sound like a great time to test that gear, assuming you have it...

Re:interesting (1, Troll)

PocariSweat1991 (1651929) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429716)

That means there's libre-free software and a service provided by a non-distro company which is, for selected distros, gratis-free. For now.

I like your Latin-based distinction of "free" better than the free-as-in-beer v.s. free-as-in-speech method.
I'll have to remember it for the next time I give a speech on OSS at the Roman senate.

Re:interesting (1)

bsDaemon (87307) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429742)

etiam, Cartago delenda est.

Re:interesting (1)

natehoy (1608657) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429866)

Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtur

Re:interesting (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429852)

Or you just need better educated friends.

Re:interesting (4, Informative)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429732)

And frankly, I'd still feel a little more comfortable with a reboot, since I'd worry a bit about state consistency of kernel and client processes.

This in theory can be a problem, but each kernel update has to be prepared individually, so someone (once again, this is the theory) has looked at the kernel modifications and made sure it won't cause problems. This isn't an automatic thing that can work with any kernel (don't try to use it to go from a 2.4 kernel to a 2.6 kernel), and if there are major changes, say a new scheduler or something, then someone needs to write code that will move the data from the old scheduler to the new scheduler.

Mainly its used for security updates which are probably a line of code changed, or a function changed, and there is no difficulty with inconsistencies (unless maybe someone is in the middle of trying to exploit the buffer overflow, but they avoid that problem by making sure no threads are in the functions that are being patched). This is my understanding of how it works.

Re:interesting (1)

innocent_white_lamb (151825) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429978)

someone (once again, this is the theory) has looked at the kernel modifications and made sure it won't cause problems.
 
I can't imagine that it would be a manual process. Isn't scanning for differences between two files and creating a list of the same something that computers can do rather well on their own? (See diff and patch by way of example.)

Re:interesting (2, Interesting)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430070)

That part is done automatically. If it is just a matter of changing a few lines of code, it happens automatically (presumably some human double-checks to make sure nothing bad will happen). The human modification comes in if there is a data-structure change, in which case custom code is written to move the data from the old structure to the new structure, since that's not something that can be automated (ok, it can be automated, but the results might not be what you want!)

Re:interesting (1)

Thelasko (1196535) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429890)

...it appears that patch preparation is based on a subscription service provided by the Ksplice Uptrack people.

Yeah, I'll use it when my distribution vendor of choice is the one doing the preparation.

Ubuntu has it already (3, Informative)

JustAnObserver (1194117) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429530)

... and it has been free for Ubuntu, as indicated on their web page (http://www.ksplice.com/pricing)

Old hat (4, Informative)

Kaz Kylheku (1484) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429548)

Lisp systems did this 30+ years ago: reload new compiled functions, and keep going. New calls go to the new function, old function becomes garbage when no more threads are executing it.

Re:Old hat (1, Insightful)

Myopic (18616) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429662)

Did you just equate hot-replacing a kernel with adding a function to a runtime environment? Or did I not quite understand? If I understand, then that would be more like, say, upgrading a program without having to reboot, which is unremarkable.

"Next time you open that app, it launches the new version!"

Re:Old hat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429870)

Unremarkable, eh? I can only infer that you have never used Windows in a corporate setting ...

Re:Old hat (2, Insightful)

imbaczek (690596) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429878)

back then, the runtime environment on a lisp machine was pretty much the kernel.

Re:Old hat (1)

Abcd1234 (188840) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430114)

Did you just equate hot-replacing a kernel with adding a function to a runtime environment?

No, he equated hot-replacing a kernel with hot-replacing a function in a piece of software while the software was still running.

Re:Old hat (1)

FranTaylor (164577) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430172)

Have you ever heard of a LISP Machine? Who says that LISP code is not in the kernel?

Re:Old hat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33430176)

Uhm.. a kernel IS a runtime environment.

Re:Old hat (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429692)

I recall reading a tale of LISP code being in one of the satellites sent out in the 70s. There was apparently a bug in the code which they were able to analyze, debug, fix, and reload - from within the current buggy version while the probe was heading off into space. I haven't messed with LISP nearly enough, but after reading that it entered the realm of Very Neat Things to me.

Re:Old hat (4, Funny)

Shikaku (1129753) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429886)

diff mainline patch
)

Re:Old hat (1)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429696)

The news is not that there exists technology to update without reboot (it indeed existed for a long time), but that this technology is now available for Linux.

Haven't touched a Fedora kernel (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33429600)

Since that bug with the exec-shield patch that occasionally killed a perfectly innocent process.

It will probably just add more bugs which no-one will notice or care about, since all the developers are already busy with Fedora N+1 before Fedora N is even released, and no-one else uses Fedora anyway.

Then somebody will release some update which breaks the updater, again.

Re:Haven't touched a Fedora kernel (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430002)

Since that bug with the exec-shield patch that occasionally killed a perfectly innocent process. It will probably just add more bugs which no-one will notice or care about,

Wasn't Fedora always intended to be a test-bed for Red hat Linux anyway?

exploitable? (1)

codepunk (167897) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429666)

How long before it is used to exploit machines, what could possibly go wrong.

Re:exploitable? (2, Insightful)

maxwell demon (590494) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429776)

Well, if you manage to get your "updates" accepted by the machine's update process, you pwn the machine after the update anyway, even with conventional rebooting updates.

Finally! (1)

RevRagnarok (583910) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429680)

I've been waiting for years!

watch uname -r

(from the man page)

Servers (4, Informative)

DreamArcher (1690064) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429772)

Other than just screwing around in your garage it's still $50 a year per server if you actually need.

Kinda Free (1)

chargersfan420 (1487195) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429794)

FTA:

The service for Fedora and Ubuntu Desktop is free of charge. For other distributions, the subscription fee starts at $3.95 per system a month, after a 30-day free trial.

WTF? Can anyone explain why they would do it this way?

Re:Kinda Free (1)

b0bby (201198) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429996)

So that you can mess around with it for free, get comfortable with it, and decide to use it on servers at work where you're willing to spend the money to avoid rebooting. That's my guess, anyway.

Re:Kinda Free (1)

jonescb (1888008) | more than 4 years ago | (#33430082)

Because the majority of people who use Ubuntu and Fedora aren't using them to run mission critical servers, and therefore they have no real use for the service anyway. Ksplice may be letting these users in for free so they can show the admins who are running an Enterprise server some data on how well their service works.

Re:Kinda Free (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33430100)

1. Provide useful software/service free-of-charge to $POPULAR_DISTRO.

2. Wait 1-2 years, or until admins develop dependency.

3. Start charging $ABSURD_AMOUNT_OF_$$ for use of software/service by $POPULAR_DISTRO.

Alternatively, they could just be evangelizing for their favorite distros.

Ports? (1, Interesting)

innocent_white_lamb (151825) | more than 4 years ago | (#33429906)

TFA says that they are making the code available to be directly included in the Fedora distribution. Fedora is pretty strict about what they include in their distribution so if it's included it will have to be Free Software.
 
Accordingly, what's to prevent anyone from taking the Fedora version and porting it to the other Linux distributions that this outfit is currently charging a user fee for?
 
Other comments above state that the use of this thing requires a specially crafted patch instead of the regular "here's a new kernel package" that you get from the distribution's repositories. If so, then wouldn't it be worthwhile to use the technology that is revealed in the Free Software Fedora version to make a patch-creating kernel update reader program (KURP - Kernel Update Reader Patch) that would scan a standard kernel update and create the required patch?
 
Then this technology could become available as a stock feature in all Linux distributions, without charge.
 
Of course, if the technology isn't Free Software then this whole scheme goes off the rails, but if it's not Free Software it won't be included in Fedora anyway.

Re:Ports? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33430228)

It's not the ksplice kernel stuff that they charge for... it's the updates that cost money.

Old hat (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33430014)

So, Linux has finally caught up to Smalltalk-80, maybe.

Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33430028)

Wow, how cool! It's almost like before this happened, I couldn't even USE ksplice!

Oh wait, it's been running on my Debian box for months...

nevermind. *crickets chirping*

You're doing it wrong. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33430084)

If you have an application where the operating system can never restart, you are doing it wrong. Even fault tolerant systems go down sometimes.

Solving non-problems (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 4 years ago | (#33430110)

Because rebooting your computer is just so unbearable. Well, I certainly fucking hate seeing the stupid logo filling up. Its a symbol of the unending quest to dumb down everything. Perhaps someone should start writing the replacement for systemd now, since most things never even got converted to upstart... or is everyone too busy making GNOME look like KDE and KDE look like GNOME?

I think what ksplice really needs is better integration with pulseaudio.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?