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Microsoft Axes 'Get The Facts'

CowboyNeal posted more than 7 years ago | from the fanning-the-flames dept.

Microsoft 241

tom66 writes "Seems like a long time coming, as Microsoft today has axed it's Anti-Linux campaign 'Get the Facts', and Microsoft has replaced it with a new campaign, called 'compare'. This article touches up on why they may have done it, and the criticism surrounding Get the Facts."

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Out with the old FUD. (5, Informative)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339463)

Out with the old FUD, in with the new FUD.

I'm not going to bother with a line by line rebuttal, I'll note on the compare Windows to Linux [microsoft.com] page (which actually is about Red Hat, not linux), the last paragraph reads:

Open Standards != Open Source
Open Source is a software development and distribution model, which does not equate to how easily the software interoperates with other software or how open or standardized the interfaces are.
If you look in the corresponding MS section however, it doesn't touch on Open Standards (and MS's disregard for them) at all.

Typical of the sickening dishonesty we get from this predatory company.

Re:Out with the old FUD. (2, Insightful)

farkus888 (1103903) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339489)

hey now, every piece of software that they want to be able to interact with their software gets the full specs on how to do it. which is to say they have access to their own standards, and fuck everybody else.

Re:Out with the old FUD. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20339529)

So I meet a girl on the internet. We exchange e-mail, mostly erotic, for some time. We decide to take the plunge and meet face to face. She knows or should know what she's getting into -- I'm very explicit in my letters and tell her what to expect. I fly out to see her for the weekend, and here's what happens:

I show up at her door. She's nervous and in a vintage corset -- wasp waist, plush hips, you know the story. The corset's so tight I think she might have had a neighbor help her into it and wonder how many people she's fucking. Aside from a black thong and black high heels all wrapped up under a smoking jacket, that's all she's got on.

Who cares what I'm wearing.

It's a bit awkward at first. We chat, I tell her I love what she's in. We drink a bit. I tell her "Why don't you take your jacket off? Now." She's taken aback. She knows I'm dominant, but still, aren't we just getting to know each other? But she stands and sheds it. She's exposed and knows it. I walk up to her and pull her very heavy breasts out of the corset, and I think she's beginning to feel embarrassed for dressing like such a whore. I tweak her nipples. She gasps. I sit down, and say,

"Present your breast to me. Put your nipple in my mouth." She says, "okay." Okay what? "Okay, sir." So she bends over my chair and lifts a tit to my mouth. I lick, she moans. We drink a bit more.

I stand up, open my suitcase, and pull out two fine leather cuffs lined in fleece. I put them on her wrists. Then, pulling her arms back, I march her to her bedroom and push her down on the bed on her back. Pull her down so her ass is right on the edge of the bed. Clip her wrists together and pull her arms above her head. "Where can I find a bowl and a towel?"

I'm gone for a few minutes, rummaging in her kitchen. When I come back I've got a razor, a towel, a bowl, and some cream. I pull a chair to the edge of the bed. "Put your feet on the bed. Now spread your legs. Wider. Don't move."

Later, when she's clean, we move into the dining room. She's moved into sub-space. As instructed, she's had an eyebolt installed in the ceiling. I attach her wrist cuffs to the bolt, and now she's stretched, feet still on the floor and hands in the air. She's so exposed. "Spread your legs."

She looks good. Heels, corset, cuffs. I get a horse crop and run it down her back, softly, teasingly... till I get to the point of her mid lower back. I stop there and jab her ever so lightly. "Arch your back for me." This will become a mantra in the two days we spend together. She arches her back, jutting her breasts forward and her ass, with her legs spread, protruding even more. I put her hair up in a pony tail. I like it that way. Something to grab.

I slap her softly with the crop. Breasts, inner thighs, buttocks. Her eyes are closed. Lulled into a sense of comfort and then suddenly brought out of it by a harsh slap on the ass. I put a rubber ball gag in her mouth, forcing it open and leaving her with no voice, other than groans.

Her ass becomes my whipping ground. "Don't slouch." Slap. A soft slap on one cheek and then the other. Then a caress. Then a slap. I cup a breast, bounce it slightly. Then reach for a nipple. A squeeze. Her ass is so red.

I unhook her from the bolt and lead her gently into the bedroom and guide her onto the bed. "Get on all fours." She is open and her breasts sway unhampered. The room is lit by her nightstand lamp. I position her so that her ass is at the end of the bed. Again, the mantra -- "arch your back for me." I run the crop over her body, gently, then lightly slap her ass. She is aroused and sensitive to the touch of the crop, moaning and wanting a caress. And then she freezes -- she feels the crop at the entrance of her ass. I have it turned around and say "I'm going to fuck you with the handle." She feels it enter ever so slightly and then stop.

"Move your ass back." I want her to impale your ass on the crop. She blushes, hesitates. "Now!" I say.

So she does. She fucks her ass on the crop while I hold it still. And begins to move back and forth on my command. It is long, slim and so controlled. When it is about four inches into her I stop and tell her not to move. I let go of the crop and tell her to keep it in that position. Sticking straight out of her ass. She complies. It is about eighteen inches long and makes such a beautiful tail sticking out of her ass that it's hard for me not to cum.

I unbutton my shirt. Rattle ice in my glass. Slap her ass. Unzip my pants. Shoes off. I caress her buttocks.... remove her ball gag. "God I want you," she says.

"I know." Her ass is trembling with the effort of holding the crop with her sphincter. I slowly pull it out. "Open your mouth." She bites the crop and I tell her to hold it lengthwise in her mouth.

"When I tell you, I want you to look back at me so I can see you with my crop in your mouth." I pour oil down the cleft of her cheeks and work one, two fingers into her. In and out. And suddenly, she arches her back and realizes it isn't my fingers, it is ME. My cock is pressed against her asshole and her ring relaxes as I shove myself up her ass. "Now!" I say and she looks back at me. She looks like she has a bridle in her mouth. Her breasts are swaying furiously. I fuck her ass as hard as I can and hold her hair and say "are you my submissive? are you?" punctuated by deep thrusts in her ass. I am getting there.

"Are you my pussy? Are you?" Another deep thrust and another. Deep and fast. And as her ring contracts around my cock and I unload my cum into her ass and shout "are you?" it is all she can do to drop the crop from her mouth and yell "yes! Yes! YES!"

Re:Out with the old FUD. (2, Insightful)

TENTH SHOW JAM (599239) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340471)

And now we have the truth. Any half decent pr0n filtering system will drop this discussion like a rock for having this comment in it. Think of it as a clever trick by M$ or backers to censor unfavorable discussion on the web about their products.

Or maybe this AC is just a tool.

Re:Out with the old FUD. (1)

Short Circuit (52384) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340515)

Meh...Comments like that one have been posted by ACs for as long as I've been on Slashdot. They get modded down to where nobody sees them, including indexing bots. Also, if you look at some of the oldest archived Slashdot stories, lower-rated comments (including Score:1 comments) aren't there, period.

Re:Out with the old FUD. (5, Funny)

ScrewMaster (602015) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339623)

I was reading a while back that Microsoft does have internal communications problems between the operating system and applications divisions. I mean, sometimes the guys working on Office don't even have all the information on the secret APIs the OS folks come up with.

Re:Out with the old FUD. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20339789)


Christ, I love Greek! Women just don't seem to understand that a
man can find just as much pleasure in the warm confines of a well-
muscled ass as they can in the satin embrace of a well-wetted
cunt. Maybe we men have conditioned them too well to ignoring one
hole for the other: nonetheless, every man I've talked to about it
loves Greek and every woman who I've talked to about it has been
less than enthusiastic. So imagine my surprise last weekend when
Kathleen treated me to the joys of anal sex in what must be the
first time in five or six years.

The night started our strangely. Kathleen had just finished re-
arranging her large scat porn collection and was exhausted. As
suits my biological clock, I was just coming awake at 10 PM when
she was turning in. She invited me to bed and I politely declined:
I was horny as usual and told her I'd keep her awake. After a couple
of more requests from her, I stripped and crawled in beside her.
Kathleen loves to snuggle and wasted no time in curling her small
body up next to mine. I turned and kissed her. She was oddly
responsive for her tired state, and teased me with a hint of
tongue in her kisses. I reached down to feel her muff and found
it just beginning to rev as her right hand slipped down her belly
to her clit.

I took up what has become my customary position between her legs -
kneeling and using my cock as a sex toy to tickle her lower labia
and the entrance to her cunt. But this time I let my aim wander
lower to the wonderful curve where ass, crotch, and leg meet. I
rubbed my cock against this soft crescent and expanded the stroke
to brush against the entrance to her ass. I noticed that every
time that my prick touched her rosebud, her strokes on her clit
quickened. It wasn't long before I was pressing the tip of my
cock against her asshole.

Surprise! My cock slipped easily into her ass until the entire
head was buried inside, and just as I was about to pull out and
apoligize, she handed me a bottle of sex lubricant and said "What
the fuck? Why not?". I pulled back and poured the lubricant on
my hard cock and noticed her pussy was swollen and very wet. I
worked my cock back into its previous nest. It was so easy. I
could feel her ass muscles relaxing and opening for me. I eased
ever so slowly deeper. Such heaven! Like a warm, wet hand
gripping all around my prick - so much tighter than pussy, and
delightful in an entirely different way. I could feel her hips
grind against me as I worked the last of my three-plus inches into
her back door. Realizing where I was and how long it had been
since I'd known this pleasure, I had to fight to pull the reigns
in on my orgasm.

It seemed like forever - my slow rocking pulling my cock almost
full-length out of her ass before easing it back in until my balls
rested against her firm buns. Her right hand furiously massaged
her clit and her left hand played at the entrance of her cunt,
pressing on the full length of her labia. And all the while my
cock was enveloped in a firm net of gripping muscles that wrestled
to bring the cum from me. "It's so weird," she said as she
searched for the grip on her own orgasm. Suddenly, it was upon
her. I felt her ass open up like a mouth that was just to blow up
a balloon. "Are you close?" she hissed. "No," I grunted.
She was close, tho'. Too close to stop. I felt her stiffen and
lurch under me. "Uuhhhh! Come on you bastard! Fill my ass!" she
yelled as she dug her nails into my back. Amazing what a little
dirty talk will do - from that special nowhere where good men
hide their orgasms until their lovers are ready, my load bolted
from my crotch to my brain and back to my flushed balls. I
gripped the pillow with my teeth and jerked my neck back and forth
and tried not to deafen Kathleen when my cum blasted out of my cock
like water from a firehose. The rush of jism racing up my tube
seemed to last for stroke after stroke until sweaty Kathleen
gasped, grunted, and pushed me from on top of her. Since I have
a little anal experience myself, I knew the sudden discomfort of
having something in your ass after you've orgasmed. I
considerately slipped out of her despite not having finished my
own orgasm to my complete satisfaction.

I kissed her and thanked her for her special gift, but she pushed
me away. "Go wash off and fuck my pussy," she said " I feel like
something's undone." So after a quick and thorough shower, I
returned to the futon where her dripping, swollen twat waited for
my not-quite-recovered cock.

And that's another story...


-- Rob Malda.

Re:Out with the old FUD. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20340337)

I came.

Re:Out with the old FUD. (5, Informative)

Sillygates (967271) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339901)

How can "free" be this expensive? Red Hat's business is based on annual subscriptions for OS support--you pay a subscription for every server, every year. And, if you want 24/7 support, you'll pay more.

Did you know? Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 Advanced costs $2,499 per server per year without add-on features, like an application server and clustering.

It is a good deal compared to (the lack of) Microsoft support. People who want support comparable to what is offered by Microsoft can download CentOS [centos.org] (fully redhat compatible) or some other completely free distribution.

Red Hat includes the Yum update tool to help you download packages and software updates, but doesn't address IT professionals' broader needs--managing applications and workloads, like mail and collaboration, database and business applications.

Thats funny, because I have built rpms for my own applications. and I use custom yum repositories to keep track of, and distribute new versions of this software.
I hope they are not trying to compare this to the customization built into windows update.

Re:Out with the old FUD. (3, Informative)

Sillygates (967271) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339951)

"Windows Server also supports a standardized, patterned approach to building systems. . .for example, for most of our major applications, we can build and distribute across the entire company a standard disk image without having to set up systems individually." --Adam Vazquez, Senior IT Manager, AMD

Partner yum with kickstart [redhat.com] , and your application server can be built on your watch, without even laying fingers on a keyboard (simple %pre and %post targets allow a system administrator to script non packaged parts of the install). This offers a much less interactive solution than one would get with 3rd party windows products like norton ghost.

Re:Out with the old FUD. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20340253)

Well actually Windows has had RIS (PXE boot/install) and IntelliMirror (Active Directory, Group Policy, MSI packages, etc) for eight years now. Sadly, many experienced admins still don't even realise how greatly it simplifies Windows administration and instead stick with crap third party products like Ghost and wonder why deployment is such a hassle...

Still, nothing beats the tasty combination of Debian Preseed, Apt and Puppet. It simply kicks ass.

Re:Out with the old FUD. (1)

batkiwi (137781) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340317)

Kickstart + yum pales in comparison the DDD + RIS.

Re:Out with the old FUD. (2, Insightful)

buddyglass (925859) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339955)

Without having pored over every detail, it seems pretty reasonable to me. I'm not surprised their comparison was limited primarily to Red Hat. It doesn't make sense to compare Windows to "linux", which is essentially the kernel. One has to compare it to one or more distributions. Red Hat is probably their biggest competition in the corporate space. It and SuSE.

Re:Out with the old FUD. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20340113)

-1 Flamebait but seriously: the whole webpage is one big advertisement. Microsoft isn't even trying to hide it.

If you go into something like that, Microsoft or no Microsoft, expecting a fair comparison, you don't live on the planet Earth.

What a stinking pile that site is. (0, Troll)

twitter (104583) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340129)

Thanks for the link to that utterly useless page.

You are right about this being little more than FUD that M$ should be embarrassed of. If you are looking for normal metrics like cost, manhours, click counts, and other apples to apples data, you won't find it there. If those clowns had any real advantages to offer, they could make a simple chart. The page looks like it was made by a freshly minted MBA on crack. Can they do anything professionally?

No they can't. It would be easy enough for them to compare their costs with Google's published costs to make their point. The problem is that reality is not as they would like it.

Re:Out with the old FUD. (5, Informative)

Whammy666 (589169) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340157)

Under the "reliability" tab, I read the case study for Continental AG. Here's a quote:

Continental first tested a Linux solution, but the company decided instead on a platform based on Microsoft® Windows Server(TM) 2003 Enterprise Edition and Windows® XP Professional because of the opportunity to lower costs and improve security. The new system architecture has considerably reduced IT costs at Continental AG.

The way it's worded implies that they replaced Linux with WS2K3 and XP, which saved all this money. But a more careful read shows that the original platform is unidentified (probably NT or such). Further, the discussion seemed to focus on the 24,000 desktops, not the servers, making this case largely irrelevant for comparing servers. An actual server comparison is never presented.

The bottom line is that this alleged proof of Windows superiority was done by comparing an anonymous and out-dated server platform against a more recent Windows server and then declaring Windows the winner over Linux with no justification given. WTF? Pure FUD indeed.

Re:Out with the old FUD. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20340283)

Interoperability by design
Microsoft approaches interoperability by design which strives for greater 'out of the box' connectivity for customers and partners.


What you're talking about? Due to solid standards, every windows version is (mostly) 100% compatible with other versions... sometimes.

Out with the anti-MS FUD (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20340511)

Teh FOSSies ph3ar the facts.

Munich has been trying, unsuccessfully, to convert everything in their municipal network over to teh Lunix. This complete train wreck has been going on since 2002... and there is no end in sight.

NCSoft just recently switched all it's servers from teh Lunix to Windows Server 2003. The reason? It handles multiple connections far better, and it's more stable.

The numbers don't like. Teh Lunix is losing the data center, and losing from even their meager share of the desktop market. Zealotry isn't paying off.

Thursday August 23, 2008 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20339465)

Microsoft axes "compare" propaganda, replaces it with "Linux, eh, it don't make you a bad person"

Funny, the ad right below the story... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20339475)

... is telling me to Get the Facts...

from microsoft: (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20339503)

Given that the /compare site will provide 3rd party information, Get the Facts will be retired as a destination."
Destination? It's a web page, not a tropical resort.

The facts? (3, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339525)

I guess too many people actually were getting the facts, and the upshot has been erosion of MS's server market share.

-jcr

numbers? (1)

rajafarian (49150) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340177)

... and the upshot has been erosion of MS's server market share.

got numbers? It sounds great and everything but... got some numbers for us? (I looked a little but couldn't find much).

Re:numbers? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20340251)

I think that he was being sarcastic. Windows Server isn't losing market share, quite the contrary.

LSB (1)

sybesis (1095871) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339535)

So Linux Standart Base isn't open standart?....

Re:LSB (1)

wanderingknight (1103573) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340121)

No, it's an Open StandarD ;)

Re:LSB (1)

cloricus (691063) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340233)

Was it ever?

My take on the whole LSB is that it's Red Hat stamping their feet demanding attention and pretending they are still remotely important to the ever day Linux world.

The original version: (5, Funny)

weak* (1137369) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339545)

Microsoft Axes 'Get the Facts,' Announces 'Kill the Penguin' - Will commission Metallica to record a song to be played on the site.

Thats good (2, Insightful)

garphik (996984) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339561)

Its nice to see some competition, that raises the level of the product

Elmer Fud (2, Funny)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340025)

It is a good thing the Linux mascot is a penguin and not a rabbit, or we would have had Elmer Fud singing 'Kill the Wabbit!'

Re:The original version: (1)

yanyan (302849) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340541)

And the song will be called "Get the Axe"!

What Linux!? (5, Interesting)

R55 (601001) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339571)

"Compare Windows to Linux"
Even in the earlier campaign they just refer to "Linux" in the print advertisements and they never specify which version of softwares on which version of distribution that they have compared (Once they had compared Redhat Linux 7.1 with Windows XP!).
It is time that responsible people from Linux Mark Institute take a note of this and sue them for libel!

Re:What Linux!? (4, Interesting)

quanticle (843097) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339625)

It seems to be a broad spectrum attack against many different Linux vendors, with most of the emphasis on attacking Red Hat Enterprise Linux. I did find some case studies highlighting people switching away from SuSE, something that I find interesting considering that Novell/SuSE is now a Microsoft partner.

Re:What Linux!? (4, Insightful)

loony (37622) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340027)

it actually makes sense - SuSE and others are already occupied territory. So why bother emphasizing an attack on them? RedHat said they will not partner with M$, so of course the attack is focused on them...

As for them using SuSE switchers as example - the selection of examples is pretty limited. They had to take whatever they could get.

Peter.

Re:What Linux!? (4, Informative)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339689)

(Once they had compared Redhat Linux 7.1 with Windows XP!).

Depending on when this comparison was done, and with what service packs and stuff for XP, this may have been a fairly reasonable comparison. If they were comparing XP sans-service packs, RedHat 7.2 would have been the most apples-to-apples comparison. Both were released in October of 2001. It's even quite possible XP was out before 7.2, which would have made 7.1 an even more reasonable choice (though 7.2 would still have been better).

Of course, if this is XP+SP2 for instance, then that's totally off-base.

Reasonable? (-1, Troll)

twitter (104583) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339961)

this may have been a fairly reasonable comparison.

From which they based their "Get the Facts" FUD assault? There were plenty of reasonable Windoze to free software studies but none of them had anything to do with M$.

Snore (0)

WindowlessView (703773) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339575)

diff "Get The Facts" Compare >/dev/null

If Microsoft says so, it must be true. (5, Insightful)

kwabbles (259554) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339583)

The guy at the Ford dealership told me that Fords are more reliable, safe, and powerful than Chevys. He showed me a bunch of charts he made, and that made me feel better. He also had a nice suit and really nice white teeth, and smiled alot. Nice guy. What reason did I have to check out the Chevy dealership?

Sadly, common sense and IT don't mix. (3, Interesting)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339931)

I will tell you of an another great lie, a lie that has existed for decades and continues to be swallowed whole. It is not related but it shows how people lack common sense.

In holland you got a consumer watch agency (consumentenbond) that does (unbiased) comparetive reviews, payed by people who subscribe to them. Pretty good BUT and honest in general as far as I know BUT one of their reviews is one big lie.

It compares the prices in supermarkets and comes with a list of supermarkets by price. You can imagine that the one who is found to be cheapest crows about this a lot.

So what is the lie?

Simple, they buy at each store a selection of standard BRANDNAME goods that an ordinary family might need, and compare the price.

This is NOT all goods a family might need in a full year and offcourse it totally ignores non-brandname goods.

Now here is the killer, the largest supermarket chain in holland (Albert Heijn) often stocks three versions of the same product: cheapo crappy brand (euroshopper) / its own label / big name brand.

The odd thing is that its own label if actually preffered by many people, for instance their peanut butter to me tastes a lot better then the brandname version (its cheapo version is truly disgusting). Yes this cheaper but better peanut butter is NOT on the shopping list.

It gets even sillier with things like sugar, a chemical product where a brandname can offer no additional value except a nicer paper bag. Yet the shopping list insists on getting the brandname product.

For yet more sillyness, a dutch consumer program Kassa, does product reviews including foods and has shown time and time again that cheapo products vs brandname products are NOT always a winner for the exensive products, a reall killer was chocolate letters a few years ago where the extremely cheap no-brand one carried by ALDI beat the established big-brands that were several times cheaper PURELY on quality. Not price vs quality, PURELY on quality.

ALDI products have won several times in these reviews, yet scores low in the price review because it doesn't carry many brandnames.

So what the fuck is your point? This is news for Nerds, not housewives! you might say.

Simple, it shows how biased any review is even when it tries to be honest. Even something as simple as deciding WHAT to review can introduce bias.

It would offcourse be unfair if the supermarket review just picked the lowest priced version of a product because that would just review price, not quality, so they go for a given quality (the exact same brand/jar-size/flavour of peanut butter) and just compare price but this ignores that this might not be the best price/quality product available.

The real truth? Well, that means that at AH you need to shop for their own brand name products and special offers, and go to Edah (the price winner) for brandname products and go to ALDI (the straight cheap price winner) for those products were quality if irrelevant (toilet paper, sugar, etc etc).

The same is true in IT, even if a review tries to be honest, you gotta ask yourselve WHAT they reviewed. One that is often missing with regards to linux is the cost of support. Not in the way most people mean it however. Say that you got a qaulity techinical team already, do you REALLY need outside support then if your own people already contribute to the kernel?

It would be like a car mechanic shop paying for car repairs on their own cars. Seems a bit silly, just maintain them yourselves.

Just because a review lists support as important doesn't mean it is important to YOU.

That is the real kicker in OS reviews, the variousses OS'es out there are totally different beasts, trying to do different things in different ways. One of the fundemental MS differences is that its servers are also a desktop. Windows 2003 can easily be converted into a XP like product capable of playing games. It leads to many a MS server being administered directly from its desktop (even if it is a remote desktop like capabilty). How do you compare this to a unix gui less offering? There can be no clear winner, obviously the gui code requires resources that are not being used purely to do the server task, the gui is "easier", but unix can be guied as well. Yet many a review just tries to compare these totally different ways of doing things.

Whenever you hear someboduy review a product, you got to really ask yourselve WHAT is being reviewed and by what standards. Common sense, but sadly most people just don't seem to have it.

Re:If Microsoft says so, it must be true. (1, Insightful)

stubear (130454) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340053)

Yeah, and OSS proponents are extremely honest when it comes to comparing OSes and applications such as Windows and Linux or Office 2007 and OpenOffice.

Re:If Microsoft says so, it must be true. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20340095)

Wish I could mod you up.

Re:If Microsoft says so, it must be true. (2, Insightful)

kwabbles (259554) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340179)

No, they're usually not. But one thing I'll say for OSS proponents - you usually don't see them using a bunch of vague assertions, flashy buzzwords, unsubstantiated "facts", biased/self-sponsored technological reviews, and snotty PR campaigns.

The Linux community has nothing to prove. Microsoft does.

Re:If Microsoft says so, it must be true. (3, Insightful)

stubear (130454) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340235)

"...vague assertions...unsubstantiated "facts"...biased/self-sponsored technological reviews..."

Please tell me you were being sarcastic there. I have read enough unsubatantiated "facts" and vague assertions about Windows on Slashdot alone to make your head spin. For instace, how about all the recent bullshit about DRM and HD playback on Vista, all perpeturaed by some paper written by a guy who states that he has never even used Vista and the readers should check the facts for him? I could go on but one need only to read Slashdot on a semi-frequent basis to see all the BS written about Windows and Microsoft.

Re:If Microsoft says so, it must be true. (2, Insightful)

kwabbles (259554) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340301)

True, there must be upwards of a billion unsubstantiated facts and vague assertions about Linux on Slashdot. Some of them were probably typed by me. :) Slashdot is simply a mass of nerds chatting on a forum about the latest "geek scoop" - hardly a mainstream marketing/news outlet. You usually don't see your friendly neighborhood MBA getting on Slashdot to find out whether to use Microsoft or Linux for their new business.

Re:If Microsoft says so, it must be true. (3, Insightful)

JohnBailey (1092697) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340425)

Please tell me you were being sarcastic there. I have read enough unsubatantiated "facts" and vague assertions about Windows on Slashdot alone to make your head spin. For instace, how about all the recent bullshit about DRM and HD playback on Vista, all perpeturaed by some paper written by a guy who states that he has never even used Vista and the readers should check the facts for him? I could go on but one need only to read Slashdot on a semi-frequent basis to see all the BS written about Windows and Microsoft.
And unless slashdot releases a Linux distro, your point is irrelevant. If you went to a Windows board or read the Windows fanboy posts, then the same applies. the two factions cancel each other out. Both sides have unrealistic cheerleaders. the Linux fanboys that expect corporate customers to use WINE to run their Windows apps, and the Windows fanboys who challenge every possible criticism about vista with " have you tried Vista yet". One is as bad as the other.

However, Red Hat, Canonical and others have not put up a site claiming the advantages of Linux over Windows using vague or stretched information that only a PR agency could call fact. And they would have to have a pretty big retainer to commit themselves that far. Microsoft (please note the lack of the traditional "$", so I can't be a zealot for either side) has replaced one misleading web site with another.

Neither OS can be held responsible for the actions or words of it's respective users, but they are responsible for their own actions. Didn't some hardware manufacturer get into trouble over the same practice years ago?

Re:If Microsoft says so, it must be true. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20340237)

Really? You DO read slashdot on occasion don't you?

You had no reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20340069)

Well, Ford has the Mustang, Chrysler the Dodge and De Lorean has the DMC-12, so indeed, you didn't have any reason to check out the Chevy dealership.

Re:If Microsoft says so, it must be true. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20340127)

The guy at the Ford dealership told me that Fords are more reliable, safe, and powerful than Chevys. He showed me a bunch of charts he made, and that made me feel better. He also had a nice suit and really nice white teeth, and smiled alot. Nice guy. What reason did I have to check out the Chevy dealership?


Wow. You miss the whole point. This isn't about car dealership. It's about software business! Whoosh!

First they ignore you.... (0)

Techman83 (949264) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339613)

Then they laugh at you...

Then they fight you...

Then you win...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_VFKqw1q2Q [youtube.com]

That about sums it up.

Re:First they ignore you.... (1)

B3ryllium (571199) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340273)

No... THIS [neatorama.com] sums it up.

(pwned! ;-))

Re:First they ignore you.... (1)

Techman83 (949264) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340309)

Touché - Slashdot board meeting? :P

Re:First they ignore you.... (1)

B3ryllium (571199) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340351)

First! heheh

Someone on LJ linked me to this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLpmGB3CPVk [youtube.com]

(The one you linked was a really nice video, btw, I enjoyed it)

Re:First they ignore you.... (1)

Techman83 (949264) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340393)

Hahaha Nice. Personally I think that the video is pretty powerful, history does have a way of repeating itself... Vista.... ME?? :P

Re:First they ignore you.... (1)

B3ryllium (571199) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340429)

Vista, ME, Windows 3.0 ... sometimes people compare Windows ME to Windows 3.11 (WFW), but having used 3.11WFW myself, I tend to disagree with them.

What? Someone else gets their blog on the front? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20339617)

tag article ohnoitsmary

You know you wanna ;)

New Focus (5, Funny)

rlp (11898) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339645)

They are no doubt focusing all their PR efforts on their forthcoming new product [youtube.com] .

Re:New Focus (1)

Chabil Ha' (875116) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339803)

OK, OK, the broken email client, camera, and music player were obviously funny, but I'd love to have the rotary interface. I actually thought that one would be fun. In fact, I'd love to have a phone like that again just to bring back the good 'ol days...

Re:New Focus (0)

stubear (130454) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340015)

How ironic that you bring Anti-MS FUD into this discussion. However, the rotary interface for the touchscreen phone is fucking cool and the ability to print pictures right out of camera would be awesome as well (hello inkless printers - http://www.zink.com/assets/how_it_works/ [zink.com] ). The e-mail thing is just plain fucking stupid as Outlook does an excellent job at filtering spam, hell even Windows Mail does a good job at filtering spam (perhaps you should try it instead of blindly bashing anything MS). The battery issue was just as dumb. The iPhone doesn't get great battery life and Apple, once again, makes the battery in their portable media devices unservicable by the user. If you need to get a new battery you're going to be without a cell phone until Apple fixes and returns yours.

Re:New Focus (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340115)

And here's another [youtube.com] starring the Monkey himself. Apple would be proud! :)

I MAY BE GONE, BUT LINUX STILL SUCKS! (1)

GET THE FACTS! (850779) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339659)

So, it looks like Microsoft decided to get rid of me. Well, that doesn't matter because LINUX STILL SUCKS!!!

WINDOWS SERVER 2008'S PERFORMANCE WILL LEAVE THE PENGUIN BLOODY AND DYING. READ THE CASE STUDIES TO FIND OUT WHY.

COMPARE! [microsoft.com]

I guess "Get the FUD" wasn't politically correct (1)

syousef (465911) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339751)

Although I do think someone should tell the to get the FUD out of here.

Microsoft copping: (1)

Progman3K (515744) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339797)

>why they may have done it

Not to disrespect all the victims, but I imagine it's similar in feel to OJ's "If I did it"

Re:Microsoft copping: (1)

SmokeyTheBalrog (996551) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340099)

There was just one (1) victim. Everyone else was crowding the bleachers.

Oh boy, it never ends... (5, Informative)

Eric Damron (553630) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339819)

"Customers want to consume this information in a variety of formats..."

ODF for me please!

Seriously this is just a new FUD campaign. Example:

How can "free" be this expensive?
Red Hat's business is based on annual subscriptions for OS support--you pay a subscription for every server, every year. And, if you want 24/7 support, you'll pay more.

Okay Microsoft, we've been telling you for years but you don't want to get it. Linux is "free as in speech" not "free as in beer." That means that the users get a whole lot of rights that you wouldn't give in your worse nightmare. The freedom to redistribute. The freedome to modify. etc, etc, etc.

Stop with the FUD websites until you know what you're talking about please. Oh, I forgot. You already know all of this but are just misleading your prospective users. Yeah, that's the kind of company with which I would want to do business. NOT!

Comparison of costs is extremely incorrect (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20339971)

Microsoft's fud site claims that the most expensive Red Hat Enterprise Linux version costs $2,499 per server per year for 24/7 premium phone and web support, unlimited users, no license restrictions, unlimited software upgrades, etc.

So how about we compare that to Windows Server 2003?
- $3,999/server for the enterprise version of Windows Server 2003 R2
- have to repurchase it every ~5 years when a new version is made available
- maximum of 25 users/workstations ($40 per extra user per Windows version)
...and wait for it...
- *NO SUPPORT WHATSOEVER!*

And we're not even getting into the real savings such as comparing MS SQL Server with an equivalent Red Hat offer, desktop Linux cost comparisons (including Office/Productivity applications), scaling costs up to 5000 users...etc

Red Hat Enterprise Linux (the product) is free. That is why CentOS exists. The only cost to using CentOS is having employees who can set it up and keep it running. But you have this exact same cost when using Windows Server as well! You pay Red Hat to provide support services to you - not for the actual product itself. If you go down the Microsoft path, you have to pay for the product AND the service (which Microsoft has conveniently ignored on their new fud website).

Their new website is self-damaging. If I was a potential Microsoft customer who was looking at the comparison between Linux and Windows, I'd instantly note Microsoft spreading fud and lies to make up for deficiencies in their offer. It is hardly reassuring that Microsoft is running scared at companies like Red Hat and feels the need to launch a big anti-Linux PR campaign based on lies and fud. The question I'd be asking myself is, "if Windows Server is so great, why can't Microsoft sell it to me based on features and facts?".

MOD PARENT UP INSIGHTFUL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20340365)

Yes. Yes. Yes. Couldn't've put it bett'r m's'lf!

Re:Oh boy, it never ends... (1)

buddyglass (925859) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339989)

Okay Microsoft, we've been telling you for years but you don't want to get it. Linux is "free as in speech" not "free as in beer." That means that the users get a whole lot of rights that you wouldn't give in your worse nightmare. The freedom to redistribute. The freedome to modify. etc, etc, etc.

Actually, "free as in beer" is one of the main advantages mentioned by most of the linux advocates I know. Certainly that's many peoples' perception. So it doesn't seem odd for Microsoft to address that misconception.

Re:Oh boy, it never ends... (3, Insightful)

weicco (645927) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340163)

You are partly right. Linux is free. Support is not. Now if you read it again like this:

Red Hat's business is based on annual subscriptions for OS support--you pay a subscription for every server, every year. And, if you want 24/7 support, you'll pay more.

"Compare" singles out Red Hat (4, Insightful)

physicsnick (1031656) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339861)

Although there is a "Compare Windows to Linux" tab on the new Compare site, nearly all the material there is targeted specifically at Red Hat -- one of the Linux distributors that is continuing to refuse to sign a patent-protection agreement with Microsoft.
Ah, so only the non-blessed distributions are inferior to Windows Server? As if Get The Facts wasn't bad enough; they've started to play real dirty. I don't see a page on redhat.com bashing Windows.

I'm very glad Red Hat is standing up to Microsoft and their shit. I hope people can see through this campaign the same as they did with Get The Facts.

cool support videos (2, Funny)

arghileh (320728) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339871)

now i know where i can go to find out how to configure linux services the RedHat and SuSE approved way. Thank you microsoft for those VERY handy videos.

I'd like to thank you (2, Insightful)

Tribbin (565963) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339903)

2010:

I'd like to thank Mr. Microsoft for his contribution by sending bug-reports and wishlist items for linux in the form of a comparison back in 2007. Without your help we would not have surpassed the geek-approach of software.

Facts vs. Compare? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20339927)

I guess Microsoft was just having a problem conveying true "facts". So now they just "compare".

Windows Powershell (4, Funny)

Capricous (847089) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339941)

because if you use loonix and you want to kill a process you have to use
ps xu | grep konqueror | grep -v grep | awk '{ print $2 }' | xargs kill -9

Re:Windows Powershell (2, Informative)

physicsnick (1031656) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339973)

Or just "killall -9 konqueror"...

Re:Windows Powershell (1)

Capricous (847089) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340023)

I was quoting from http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver/compare/vid eos/windowspowershell.wvx [microsoft.com] I should have put a link in my parent post.

Re:Windows Powershell (1)

Megatog615 (1019306) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340259)

How are they to win me over if they use a non-free video format that I cannot even watch?

Re:Windows Powershell (2, Funny)

EvanED (569694) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340449)

Ha, I love how the IE window that he's killing has Google open.

Re:Windows Powershell (1)

JoshJ (1009085) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340003)

Maybe if you use loonix you have to do it that way, but "killall konqueror" works just fine. It's the Solaris people who have difficulty with that one.

Re:Windows Powershell (2, Insightful)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340073)

The nicest Loonix way:
ctrl-alt-esc, click

I really like that skull and cross-bones icon.

Re:Windows Powershell (1)

The Master Control P (655590) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340083)

I disagree. First of all, it's rather rude to send SIGKILL to processes that are still responding. Second, if you're invoking AWK you might as well use it.

ps xu | awk '$11 ~ /kcalc/ { print $2 }' | xargs kill -15

C'mon, I'm sure I missed something - let's get this optimized!

huh...gimme a break (2, Interesting)

b1ufox (987621) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339977)

thanks for the linke whineymacfanboy :)

A little down the road you ll find

"Red Hat includes the Yum update tool to help you download packages and software updates, but doesn't address IT professionals' broader needs--managing applications and workloads, like mail and collaboration, database and business applications."

Give me a break. Is the guy who wrote this nuts?
What blatant lie.
Enough with FUD, i am going to format my windows partition at work machine too.

Re:huh...gimme a break (1)

gujo-odori (473191) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340197)

No, he's not nuts. He's stupid :)

It's true that Yum doesn't do those things. Adept doesn't do those things. YAST doesn't do those things. But neither does Windows Update, which is the nearest Microsoft equivalent to Yum, Adept, and YAST. In terms of features, functionality, and ease of use, though, those three all blow Windows Update away, but I guess we won't find him mentioning that. Windows Update is agonizing to use, compared to any major update tool on Linux or Mac.

Heck, even the command line is a lot better than Windows Update. apt-get update && apt-get -f dist-upgrade and all your updates are taken care of with greater ease and less time than Windows Update requires.

Re:huh...gimme a break (1)

pyrrhonist (701154) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340531)

But neither does Windows Update, which is the nearest Microsoft equivalent to Yum, Adept, and YAST.

No, that's the consumer version. The IT administrator uses Windows Software Update Services (SUS), which allows updating of an entire domain.

Site's not too bad; typical marketing stuff (2, Insightful)

davide marney (231845) | more than 7 years ago | (#20339995)

From a technology standpoint, the /compare site isn't that bad. It's clearly not intended for technical people, but for business executives. It tries to put Windows in the best possible light while scaring the beeswax out of you for even thinking of trying Red Hat. The usual Marketing stuff.

The section on interoperability is somewhat humorous, in a dark sort of way, given Microsoft's reputation as the baddest of the bad when it comes to following anyone's standards but their own.

Next step.... (2, Funny)

ingo23 (848315) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340037)

1. Get the facts
2. Compare
3. Oops!

No you messed it up. (1)

Almahtar (991773) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340445)

3. supposed to be "???" and 4. is supposed to be "profit!". Remember, this is /.

Interoperability? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 7 years ago | (#20340059)

Microsoft approaches interoperability by design which strives for greater 'out of the box' connectivity for customers and partners.
Interoperability only for other Microsoft products, and not even consistently. Maybe some "competitors" who pay patent royalties can get some interop too.

Interoperability by design entails not only engineering excellence in our products, but also includes collaborating with customers, partners, and competitors; providing access to our technologies through licensing and translation tools; and engaging in standards-setting activities.
They also should be more specific with regards to "standards-setting". If it was up to them, they would love to crush any long-existing, proven standard and replace it with a technically inferior closed up piece of trash that doesn't do the job half as well, just so they can increase market share, at everybody else's expense, including their own customers. Of course, Microsoft didn't put this site up so they could make themselves sound evil and monopolistic. No, that would be bad for their business and self-preservation. Who cares about the customer if they don't have a choice?

No techie will believe this! (4, Insightful)

ylikone (589264) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340075)

But I guess that's the problem... techies know the truth, but they have to battle against the ignorant manager who believes the shit MS writes.

Well (1)

SamP2 (1097897) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340123)

Apparently telling people to "get the -facts-" has proved counterproductive for MS, so the plan B is "compare [what we tell you about us to what we tell you about them]". And unlike our last campaign, we won't let facts to get in our way this time!

Let's Compare! (4, Insightful)

BillGatesLoveChild (1046184) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340125)

Windows: Pain in the ass activation system
Linux: Not

Windows: Media Player monitors what you are watching/listening to and logs it with Microsoft.
Linux: None

Windows: Intrusive DRM, Scarce Driver Support, Many incompatabilities, Huge Security Holes
Linux: None

Windows: Parent company breaks anti-trust laws, slap on wrist by Justice Department, continues to flaunt law without penalty
Linux: None

Windows: Threatens small competitors with a flood of patent lawsuits
Linux: None

Windows: Includes code to spy on China
Linux: None

Hey, Microsoft is right! Linux can't do anything!

Re:Let's Compare! (0, Troll)

robvangelder (472838) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340313)

The poster is ignorant.
The very FUD complained about is neck-high in this thread.

1) Linux is free, why would it need anti-piracy measures?

2) Microsoft does not monitor what you're listening to, unless you choose to allow them.
Played DVDs lately?

3) The DRM is not intrusive, driver support is the widest available, Windows was built for backward compatibility and Microsoft Update / WUS is leading industry.

4) You're right

5) Small competitors would do the same, welcome to business

6) Prove they spy on China? And prove that Linux doesnt

Re:Let's Compare! (4, Insightful)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340517)

1) Linux is free, why would it need anti-piracy measures?
It isn't that they do or don't need 'anti-piracy measures', after all plenty of non-free software have no 'anti-piracy systems' either.
It is about the pain in the ass that 'anti-piracy measures' bring with them.

2) Microsoft does not monitor what you're listening to, unless you choose to allow them.
Played DVDs lately?
Yes, VLC plays them just fine thank you. It's only in the USA where software patents mean anything (ok Japan has software patents too). The rest of the world has no legal issue with DVD playback using Free software. And do you know how terribly hard it is to get VLC in the USA? It's easier than getting official DVD software for MS Windows which costs extra. Just download it from the VLC webpage in France the same way you would download it for MS Windows.

3) The DRM is not intrusive, driver support is the widest available, Windows was built for backward compatibility and Microsoft Update / WUS is leading industry.
DRM, by its very nature is intrusive, it is a restriction after all, isn't it? But DRM's intrusion even goes above and beyond that, or perhaps you missed this recent example [slashdot.org] ?

Driver support being the 'widest available' is arguable. Sure, everyone and his brother targets MS windows. But once the product is end-of-lifed, the drivers don't keep up with new versions of windows. They do with linux. So plenty of old hardware won't work on vista but will work with the latest linux kernels.

As for "Microsoft Update" leading the industry? WTF? Leading them to hell perhaps? MS Update reports back all kinds of information about each system that is unnecessary. The various updaters for Ubuntu, Suse and Redhat all do the same job without the same loss of privacy.

6) Prove they spy on China? And prove that Linux doesnt
Not just China, everyone. See NSAKEY. As for proving that linux doesn't, that's easy enough since anyone who cares has full access to the source code which they can then compile themselves in full confidence. The BEST MS will do is let you look at some, incomplete, source code, under very restrictive NDA licensing and they sure won't let you compile it and use the end result.

Re:Let's Compare! (1)

mogey (60047) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340355)

How can I disable the eye on China code? it uses a lot of my system resources.

Re:Let's Compare! (1)

Cassius Corodes (1084513) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340495)

Why would you? Its like playing black and white except you can't pick up the people. You can only do that in Vista ultimate.

Lies, damned lies, and... (2, Insightful)

realdodgeman (1113225) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340145)

Interoperability by design
Microsoft approaches interoperability by design which strives for greater 'out of the box' connectivity for customers and partners.

Yeah...
*cough* OOXML,MS OFFICE,VISTA,NETWORKING,THERESTOFTHEIRPRODUCTS *cough*

No big deal (5, Informative)

steveoc (2661) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340269)

If you care to dive into the article, download and read the .doc format 'case studies', you will see there is nothing much to crow about.

If you are looking for hard empirical stats on a real comparison of Linux vs Windows, then these case studies are not for you. If you are looking for fuzzy feel-good buzzword-laden coffee table anecdotes, then its worth the download.

In the comparison cases presented, the reasoning is basically as follows :

"I went out with a Blonde once, and she was cool, except she had no job, and was stuck at home with 3 noisy kids - so we rarely got out together. Then I met this independent Brunette chick with a rich Dad and no ties, and we had a ball together. Therefore, based on my extensive experience with such a broad variety of women, I must conclude that in 100% of cases Brunettes make better girlfriends than Blondes'.

SwissAir's initial problem was that their existing Java/Oracle web site was less than optimal, and the code mixed presentation with business logic at all levels of the spaghetti triangle. So they went for a ground-up rebuild using their newly aquirred experience in how not to build a system. The operating systems hosting the bad-build / good-build of their web site are not even relevant to the study, but they happen to be Linux the first time around, and Windows the second time around.

Its a good article if you are interested in the subject of system development lifecycles .. but its hard to build a case for operating systems around it. You could just as easily say that the original Java/Oracle first cut (which ran on HP proliants) was replaced with a .NET rebuild (running on Dell), and therefore Dell is a better choice than HP.

The State of Illinois story is no better. Their initial problem is an aging hulk of a Groupwise messaging system running on Novell Netware. They chose to go to an unspecified line of Microsoft products, the prime deciding motivation being 'Because of Microsoft's position in the market'. The IT director even goes so far as to admit that 'We are not a science outfit - we just need something to get the job done', and they forgot to edit out the comment that 'For us, security was not a driving issue'. In other words, here is an organisation that is flat out doing whatever it does, and it just wants to outsource all of it's IT problems to a big outside company, and get on with the business of .. whatever it is that it does. Linux doesnt even come into the discussion - they never used it at all, so its hardly even a comparison. Very lame choice of stories to include in the 'Comparison' site I would have thought.

Re:No big deal (1)

Almahtar (991773) | more than 7 years ago | (#20340457)

If you are looking for hard empirical stats on a real comparison of Linux vs Windows, then these case studies are not for you.


SAY IT AINT SO!
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