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MythTV 0.19 Released

Zonk posted more than 8 years ago | from the your-sunday-project dept.

Television 282

slummy writes "After much anticipation, MythTV 0.19 has been released. The release notes outline the new features and bug fixes, and the official announcement for this release is available on the MythTV site." From the release notes: "The major changes in this release [include]: LiveTV rewritten to support saving buffered content while watching. Signal Monitoring for DVB and pcHDTV recorders. Ending times may be changed while recordings are in progress. Playgroups allow for default playback options on recordings. Channel changes can be made across tuners without changing tuners manually first. New popup keyboard simplifies setup using remote. Preview schedule changes when making adjustments to recording schedules. Added ability to control MythFrontend through a telnet socket."

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MythTV Usage? (4, Interesting)

hunterkll (949515) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701744)

I've been reading about MythTV, but was wondering, besides the bog standard DVR usage, what other usage people get out of it? Do you jack your game systems into it and record plays for later use? :) Do you play with vintage computers, and record demos? Do you have it record directly into an ipod compatable format? (can it do that?) What unique things can this system do?

Re:MythTV Usage? (5, Interesting)

WTBF (893340) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701776)

Do you have it record directly into an ipod compatable format?

I have mine encode certain shows ready for my iPod and they appear in iTunes as a podcast ready to put on my iPod.

I also enjoy how it can detect adverts, which is been getting better and better in recent releases - something that is unlikely to appear in some commercial PVR software.

The multiple frontend (and backend) ability is also great, as it means that I can record and watch a recording as someone else as watching something elsewhere in the house.

Re:MythTV Usage? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14702004)

Could you please explain how you export shows?

If there is a web site you can just point to, that would be great.

I love MythTV but I haven't figured out yet how to get shows out, other than "write down the date and time the show was recorded, then try to figure out which file it is based on that."

Re:MythTV Usage? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14702202)

You can set up user jobs to do whatever you want. One of the variables you can use is the title I think. You could use this to copy to somewhere else and rename. Or you could have it encode the file to a different format.

Same in Windows (2, Interesting)

voxel (70407) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702099)

I enjoy all of the above, but in Windows, using SageTV. (sagetv.com)

I also enjoy things like a real time-line progress bar w/ commercial markers.

Stability with ATI HDTV Wonder, and AverMedia A180 HDTV Tuners...

WebUI, Adskip, DVD rip, Weather, Full UI mods/skins, client/server, awsome HDTV support, and kick-ass driver support for every tuner card out there (No PVR250 needed).

All for the cost of some $$$.. Well worth it to me.

Re:Same in Windows (1)

sigloiv (870394) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702660)

I casually use my 9600XT with it's VIVO support with an old satellite reciever I own. I looked at SageTV, but unfortunately it didn't support the AIW/VIVO...

Re:MythTV Usage? (5, Interesting)

zCyl (14362) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701904)

Do you jack your game systems into it and record plays for later use? :)

With most TV capture cards, you wouldn't want to actually play the games through the capture card, since there is an added delay of around a second to a few seconds. For live TV this is not important, but that'd really mess with a gaming experience. But if you split the signal, play off of a TV, and route the spare signal through the capture card for recording, then you could do this.

What unique things can this system do?

One feature which I think is underappreciated is the networking ability. MythTV is split into a backend and a frontend, and multiple frontends can be connected to the backend at a time (although the number of sessions actively watching live tv is limited by the number of capture cards, a large number can watch recorded shows). You can even run MythTV via an ssh tunnel if you route port 3306 (for mysql) and port 6543 (for mythtv) through ssh. This means you can sit a server at home for your primary TV with a single capture card, and then watch recordings or live cable TV securely from any linux machine (laptop or desktop) that you have on a good network connection.

This is a convenient way to be able to watch different shows in different parts of the house without splitting the cable line or buying a lot of TVs, and also a convenient way to get access to cable TV in places that have good network connectivity, but no cable line or TV.

That's not a bad featureset for only requiring a $50 capture card and some time to set up MythTV.

Re:MythTV Usage? (0)

Dot.Com.CEO (624226) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702059)

With most TV capture cards, you wouldn't want to actually play the games through the capture card, since there is an added delay of around a second to a few seconds. For live TV this is not important, but that'd really mess with a gaming experience. But if you split the signal, play off of a TV, and route the spare signal through the capture card for recording, then you could do this.

Despite your authoritative tone, you are simply wrong.

Re:MythTV Usage? (1)

hunterkll (949515) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702205)

Quite, I play my commdore 64 through my AIW card all the time, and I used to use my gamecube with it before I had a tv in my room. there's no delay whatsoever

Re:MythTV Usage? (3, Informative)

atrus (73476) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702214)

Right and wrong. The capture card does not contribute significantly to the delay (there IS a delay though, but its on the order of ms, not seconds). The biggest delay is the recording spooling, which allows you to pause and rewind live TV. The encoder runs a few seconds ahead of the decoder/display to prevent any glitches. You'll see this in any PVR device. This is pretty much unuseable for games of course.

Re:MythTV Usage? (3, Informative)

NormalVisual (565491) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702227)

No, actually he's not. I see the same behavior on my v18.1 system with a PVR-250 and PVR-350. The delay exists because the "live TV" signal that's displayed on the screen is actually played from the buffered data, and it takes a short period of time for the system to buffer enough data before it displays it. The same delay is seen during channel changes. In my particular case, it's about two seconds.

Nope, you are the one who is wrong (4, Informative)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702515)

Capture cards with onboard MPEG encoders (the kinds you *want* to be using with MythTV) have a 1-2 second delay inherent in their operation. They are completely unsuitable for most games out there, except for possibly puzzle games where reaction times mean nothing.

Yes, "dumb" capture cards are fine for games and I use an old BT848-based card with my Xbox, but such capture cards are not a wise choice for anyone serious about reliable TV recording, since they require large amounts of CPU on the encoder box.

Re:MythTV Usage? (1)

Doug Lim (74538) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701925)

Assuming you have a capture card that can capture directly to MPEG2 or MPEG4, you should be able to transfer and play MythTV recordings on anything that understands either of those. I presume a video ipod would be able to play MythTV recordings. (I've got a Hauppauge WinTV PVR-350 with hardware MPEG2 encoding and an EPIA MII 12000 motherboard, which has VIA Unichrome video for hardware accelerated MPEG2 decoding for playback).

"Bog standard DVR usage" sounds pretty mundane until you consider "standard" as the key word in that phrase. Last I heard, Tivos still used a proprietary video format unplayable on anything but the Tivo. I have a 45-60 minute train commute and I fairly regularly transfer recordings off my MythTV box onto my laptop and watch them during my commmute. Oh, and the program guide data feed doesn't require a subscription fee like Tivo does.

A MythTV setup is probably more comparable to commercially available hard-drive based DVRs that are starting to come onto the market for starting around $700, which is about what my MythTV setup cost me to build last year (WinTV PVR-350, EPIA MII 12000 motherboard, 512M memory, 120GB hard drive, 8x Dual-layer DVD+-RW drive, Venus 668B mini-ITX case). The cost would probably be slightly lower now.

Re:MythTV Usage? (1)

drig (5119) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702049)

I don't have TV hooked into mine (no tuner card yet). I have a digital camera and we have tons of video and pictures of my kids. We also rip DVDs to the disk and play them later, and play mp3's. We're planning on getting a tuner card, so we'll also record TV. Plus, then we'll hook the camera into it and use MythPhone as a video phone.
We've had the system for only about 2 months, but we're finding it very fun and useful. It's definitely something we're going to keep, even without DVR capabilities.

Re:MythTV Usage? (2, Informative)

RelaxedTension (914174) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702430)

It does a bunch of things, not all unique:
- Split frontend/backend to spread the load around. Multiple backends can be slaved together for a lot of recording cards and storage, and lighter frontend-only machines can be used just for viewing. Or do both on one machine.
- Tivo-like recording tools, live tv pause/rewind, and commercial skip
- Play and rip DVD's, play video files (avi, mpg, wmv, etc)
- Play CD's and online music in various formats, as well as rip music to various formats
- Obligatory picture viewer
- Basic web interface
- Weather info
- Game interface for mame, snes, Linux games, etc.
- RSS news interface
- SIP compatible phone setup
- Extensible plugin architecture
- Web interface to most of the functionality

The plugin/addon part is where the fun is. A variety of people write stuff for it, like streaming recordings to a web browser, recipe lookups, etc. I realize there is a lot of etc.'s in this post, but that's the bestway to describe a lot of it, there is a lot more detail and variety available.

A lot of of people bitch about the setup, but using the right hardware and a good guide like Jarod's for Fedora Core makes it quite easy. And if you enjoy tweaking or full-on code and feature changing, then that is available as well since it's open source.

Additional firewire support (1)

Mean_Nishka (543399) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701752)

Since I am stuck with lousy Scientific Atlanta boxes from Comcast, I thought this was the most exciting new feature:

Added firewire and external channel changing support for SA3250HD

Ubuntu Breezy packages (5, Informative)

Plug (14127) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701753)

Ubuntu Breezy packages for MythTV can be found at http://deb.thehunter.ws/ [thehunter.ws] . Huge thanks to those Drunken Caffeinated Monkeys.

Re:Ubuntu Breezy packages (3, Insightful)

ThreeE (786934) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702165)

This would seem to be a bad idea -- installing .debs from someplace random... YMMV.

Re:Ubuntu Breezy packages (1)

Bronster (13157) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702395)

Yep, around about as stupid as installing .tar.gzs from someplace random [mythtv.org] . Besides, you can always download the source files and build the .debs yourself after satisfying yourself that it is indeed the same source code.

Re:Ubuntu Breezy packages (1)

ThreeE (786934) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702499)

There's a big difference from installing from the MythTV site than, well, someplace random. Some guy named "TheHunter.ws"...

But hey, like I said, YMMV. And you are right -- building the debs yourself from the MythTV.org CVS is a much better idea. Plus, you can get the debs from Ubuntu anyway -- they'll get the latest update sometime soon...

Re:Ubuntu Breezy packages (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14702626)

But what if your compiler has been comprimised? And how can you make sure you are really "you".

Re:Ubuntu Breezy packages (1)

EnronHaliburton2004 (815366) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702758)

And yet that is what most Debian Stable and Ubuntu users do for new third-party products.

If you want PHP5 for Debian, you need to download it from some unofficial Debian site. Some people know the site and trust the packages. To me, it's a "Random site".

This is a very common practice.

What about this on the MythTV site? (1)

carlmenezes (204187) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702556)

It is highly recommended if you are using the Nvidia binary VGA drivers that you use version 7676 or earlier as later revisions have serious problems with features like XvMC and OpenGL sync which can result in poor performance or lockups.

Will the breezy package automatically check for that?

How long untill KnoppMyth has it ready? (1)

boy_afraid (234774) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701766)

This is wonderful news, but how long until KnoppMyth [mysettopbox.tv] is ready for the rest of us to play with?

I've got my R5A30.2 working with 95% success and will be replacing all of my Tivos in my house very very soon. I already have the backend working, and frontend working in the living room.

Re:How long untill KnoppMyth has it ready? (1)

mad.frog (525085) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702591)

I thought KnoppMyth sounded like a great idea, so I downloaded it a few weeks ago to try out.

Problem #1: the setup menus don't work with USB keyboards. (Or so I learned after going to their site -- at first I just thought the computer had frozen.) There is a workaround ("unplug and replug the keyboard after you get to that menu"), which was deemed simple enough to postpone fixing this one indefinitely. (I don't think I've owned a non-USB keyboard for... oh, 8 or 10 years. I certainly don't have one in the house these days.) Annoying, but how many times will I encounter this -- it's a setup menu right? So, I slog on.

Problem #2: after I got to that elegant workaround, it got as far as the network setup menu... but when it tried to find a DHCP server, it apparently was unable to deal with the fact that eth0 wasn't actually connected to anything on this computer (it's running a wireless card). It dealt with this unexpected problem by... dropping to the shell command prompt.

So, that download went into the recycling bin.

Look, I realize that this is a hard problem, but promoting something as a LiveCD implies (to me, anyway) that it Will Just Work. (And if it can't Just Work on your hardware, it should be able to detect this and fail gracefully.)

Could I have fixed all this myself? Yeah,I guess. But I have better things to do. (Like reading Slashdot and bitching when free software doesn't work perfectly the first time.)

wow... It never ceases to amaze me (1)

enrico_suave (179651) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701777)

MythTV just keeps getting better and better. I can't wait until .19 (presumably) gets folded into knoppmyth (yeah I know, just build it from scratch using one of the excellent guides like Jarrod's Fedora Core howto... but knoppmyth does make it so easy...)

e.

Re:wow... It never ceases to amaze me (1)

Blob Pet (86206) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701887)

I'm with you on this. It's simply easier with knoppmyth.

MythTV Meme Still Strong (1)

broward (416376) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702050)

MythTV was one of my pre-inflection graphs / choices last year. It's still going strong. It's not the best graph I've ever seen, but there's clearly strength behind it.

http://www.realmeme.com/roller/images/meme/mythTVD ejanews.png [realmeme.com]

Windows? (3, Funny)

hunterkll (949515) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701778)

I've looked, but they seem to miss this important feature annoucement, or does it just lack? Does it run on windows?

Re:Windows? (1)

WTBF (893340) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701793)

There is a .Net client that has very limited functionality that runs on windows, but the proper mythtv stuff itself doesn't.

However, if you want a Mythtv box I would really reccomend dedicating it to mythtv and so the operating system is fairly unimportant as long as it will run mythtv.

Re:Windows? (1)

hunterkll (949515) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701802)

the post was meant as a joke :)

Re:Windows? (1)

BoldAndBusted (679561) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701839)

Of course, you can share the recordings with Winblows boxes via Samba. There's even a script included to make human-friendly filenames for the shows.

Re:Windows? (1)

ThreeE (786934) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701884)

Are you referring to nuvexport, or is there something that does this during the transcoding job?

Re:Windows? (1)

WTBF (893340) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701951)

If your card supports hardware encoding, like a Nova-T (dvb) or a Win-Tv 150, 250 etc (analogue) then it automatically encodes into mpeg2 that can be played back on windows.

You can also set the recording profile to automatically encode mjpeg/nuv recordings into mpeg2 or 4 somewhere in the setup.

Re:Windows? (1)

ThreeE (786934) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702052)

All true, but this where do the filenames get changed to something human readable? Right now, all my files are like this: 1008_20060212110000_20060212113000.nuv -- which basically is [channel # + 1000]_[startdatetime]_[enddatetime].nuv.

Re:Windows? (1)

Jetson (176002) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702102)

Right now, all my files are like this: 1008_20060212110000_20060212113000.nuv -- which basically is [channel # + 1000]_[startdatetime]_[enddatetime].nuv.

Actually, it's not "channel + 1000", but "video source 1, channel 008". Myth can support multiple input cards that have lineups from different sources or record in different formats.

Re:Windows? (1)

ThreeE (786934) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702135)

Good info -- I didn't knw that. I would be interested in knowing how to get the filenames into human readable format and out of the .nuv container into a standard .avi or .mpeg file. I can do it now via nuvexport, but I do that manually on a file by file basis. I suspect there is a way to include this in the transcoding or other post-processing job within MythTV -- but I haven't figured it out yet.

MythTV is great. I would never suggest it to someone new to linux, but with a bit of knowledge and some persistance, this software is a gem.

Re:Windows? (1)

geckofiend (314803) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702467)

If you have a hardware encoder it's already in MPEG format just with a nuv extension. .19 uses the proper extension...

Re:Windows? (1)

calethix (537786) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702405)

MythstreamTV [sourceforge.net] allows you to stream recorded shows to Windows PCs.

It's not quite as good as watching it directly on your MythTV box but it's decent.

Re:Windows? (1)

ncc74656 (45571) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702779)

Of course, you can share the recordings with Winblows boxes via Samba. There's even a script included to make human-friendly filenames for the shows.

There's also a shell extension that looks up filenames in the MythTV database and makes show metadata available to Explorer in the details view. It's part of DSMyth [sourceforge.net] (which also includes DirectShow filters for the MPEG-4 recordings MythTV can create, but I don't use that part of it since all of my captures are MPEG-2).

Re:Windows? (1)

zCyl (14362) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701844)

There is a .Net client that has very limited functionality that runs on windows, but the proper mythtv stuff itself doesn't.

The WinMyth frontend you refer to also seems to fail or crash for a lot of people who try it. It's still fairly solidly in the developmental stage.

Re:Windows? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14701893)

>> The WinMyth frontend you refer to also seems to fail or crash for a lot of people who try it.

That's to make Windoze people feel right at home.

Re:Windows? (1)

rtos (179649) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702409)

I've looked, but they seem to miss this important feature annoucement, or does it just lack? Does it run on windows?

I know the post was meant as a joke. :) But I really do think there would be some value in having a Windows mythfrontend available, if not a backend. Unfortunately, all that is available now is WinMyth [sourceforge.net] . And that doesn't work in most cases.

Part of the problem IMHO, is the absolute lack of documentation [thinkhole.org] for the MythTV protocol.

Re:Windows? (1)

Redbaran (918344) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702718)

Techincally, I don't think that would be a feature, but more of a bug.

Some comments (1)

slummy (887268) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701805)

I just installed this new version, it took about 2 hours to compile on my 800mhz Slackware box. The most significant change that I saw was the speed at which the backend handles channel changes. I think they re-worked the live-tv buffer a bit.

The new default theme also caught my eye, they based it off Microsoft Windows Media Center but of course added the MythTV/Linux flavor :)

Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (2, Informative)

TechyImmigrant (175943) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701806)

MythTV is a bitch to configure.

I have to lspci, then spend weeks messing around with mythtv-config and mythfrontend to try and get it to receive TV. I've done this with three different cards, all of which are supposed to work with MythTV and still the dumb program fails to be able to do the most basic things, such as let me change channel, or use more than one card at a time, or be able to use an NTSC/ATSC card in anything other than NTSC mode.

It's not like I'm uneducated in these things. I was a principle engineer on a DVB set top box in the past. I do have a clue. However MythTV takes all that is obvious about television and renders it obscure and crash prone.

The thing they need to fix is autoconfigure code that scans for TV cards, asks you some basic questions (OTA/Cable/SAT? What country are you in?) and works out the rest, scanning for available NTSC/ATSC/DVB-T/DVB-S/DVB-C/DVB-H, logging them, mapping them against known channels (all available from the feds in the US and public sources in other countries).

My TV gets by without knowing what channels are being sent. It just finds them. MythTV should be able to work out of the box in the same way.

It would be nice if it could actually watch or import DVDs, like it claims it can. WatchDVD drops out after the first intro section, playing only 1 section. Import DVD does nothing. Yes I did install the CSS library. It did not help.

MythTV needs a configuration and functionality fix before they address minor UI issues.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (1)

slummy (887268) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701815)

I had absolutely no trouble configuring my box the first time. I used a Hauppage PVR-150 which is nicely supported by the IVTV drivers.
In fact, I found it quite easy once the proper modules were installed. I even have my remote working seamlessly. It just takes a bit of dedication the first time around, but after that it'll be a breeze.
Don't give up, there is always a brighter future in store!

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (1)

calethix (537786) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702372)

Did you set yours up recently? I had some difficulties getting my PVR-150 to work with the IVTV drivers. Once I got the right IVTV drivers, MythTV itself wasn't too bad. Anyway, I was just curious if there had been more improvements in the IVTV drivers since I installed it (around last summer I think).

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14701841)

I have no problem getting it configured to run with my WinTV PVR USB2 device which is not supposed to run with it at all. I can watch and decode DVD without a problem. I am not *uber* geek like most people claim to be on this site. However, with Jarrod's howto and Fedora 4 I was able to get this up and running in less then a half day. I used to be a die hard TIVO fanatic but now I don't know how I got by without MythTV plus now I have a reason to have a Fedora server at home that I can add stuff to it.

I just trialed BeyondTV and SageTV on a Windows box and all I had was problems getting that to work on the most supported OS on the planet! BTV and STV just kept crashing out on me, but right now my Fedora MythTV box has been running for 48+ hours without a need for me to reboot.

Installing MythTV is a breeze just follow Jarod's howto. Heck, I even build 0.19 from source but I want to wait for ATRPMs to update just in case I'm missing something.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14701848)

So go buy a TiVo like the rest of the lusers and leave us alone.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (1)

swillden (191260) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701885)

I can't comment about your other complaints, since I don't use Myth as a PVR (we don't watch TV). But these two make no sense:

It would be nice if it could actually watch or import DVDs, like it claims it can. WatchDVD drops out after the first intro section, playing only 1 section.

Huh? You do realize that "Watch DVD" just runs mplayer, right? And mplayer works just fine. There is something seriously wrong with your setup.

Import DVD does nothing. Yes I did install the CSS library.

Did you also install the mythdvd package? If you can elaborate on what "does nothing" means, there are probably plenty of people here who can tell you how to fix it.

MythTV needs a configuration and functionality fix before they address minor UI issues.

Perhaps the TV-watching part is hard to set up; the parts of MythTV that I use were trivial to set up. In any case, if you don't like Myth and don't want to invest the time into making it work, there are plenty of commercial options out there. It sounds like they would serve your needs better.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (1)

ThreeE (786934) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701927)

DVDs with menus are difficult (impossible) to get to work using mplayer. However, xine does a great job with them. You can change the player in MythTV to xine -- combine that with CSS libs and it will work fine.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (4, Insightful)

croddy (659025) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702033)

Are you serious? That doesn't even remotely describe my experience with MythTV. Everything worked smoothly right out of the box -- spending a 5-10 minutes reading the install documentation *can* be very helpful.

There's a good reason your TV gets by without any metadata about the channels it's receiving -- it doesn't have any functionality which makes use of that metadata. It doesn't have to schedule recordings or resolve conflicts. It just has to tune what you tell it to tune, and light up your CRT with the signal.

All that aside, it's very rude for you to criticize something that people are writing and giving away freely on their own time and their own dime. Lots of people have used it successfully. If it doesn't work for you, track down the bugs and either report them or patch them. Vague, general complaints about the developers' priorities are completely out of line.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (3, Insightful)

ajs (35943) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702383)

If it were rude to critisize open source, then Slashdot would be Miss Manners' nemesis. Fortunately, such criticism is part of the process, and has been since at least when I got involved, back in '88.

If you work on something like MythTV, you expect a ton of BWCing, but not all of it is bad. Often, the complaints of users demonstrate those areas that your software is truly lacking. Of course, detailed bug reports are ALWAYS more helpful, but if all the brain power you can spare is that requried for a rant... well, don't think you're the first.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (1)

grungebox (578982) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702048)

You might consider GB-PVR [gbpvr.com] . Windows-based, easy to set up, and free (though not open-source). The software's skins are lacking, so if the wife-acceptance factor is critical, that might hurt. All in all, I've been happy with it. There are some significant problems (priority lists are hard to set up, automatically interrupts live recording to start a scheduled recording without prompting you...something that always seems to happen during important live events like the Super Bowl, etc...) but it's certainly good for what it is. It also has media functions built in, and I've had no problems playing/ripping DVDs. I'm sure Myth is more customizable, but GB-PVR is certainly not too bad for the lack of effort involved.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14702533)

Easy to set up? Maybe if you're in the US and are using an analog recording card with scheduling information included with the program. Just try getting the damned thing to work with a DVB card in Europe - it's next to impossible, despite the program claiming to support it. Even when it does work, it works very poorly, and the scheduling information is even more difficult to set up than MythTV, despite using the same sources.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (0, Redundant)

BoldAndBusted (679561) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702083)

I'm sorry for your troubles. I've had MythTV running solid since August of 2004. No crashes outside of the few days needed to configure it. What you are asking for is for a nicely boxed product that has an army of QA testers and UI analysts to make a very polished product geared for non-technical users. MythTV is, as stated on mythtv.org, geared towards developers.

Of course, anyone is free to try to create what you are asking for out of MythTV and sell it. You are welcome to join the project and submit solid code to implement the features you suggest are important to MythTV.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (4, Informative)

rtos (179649) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702354)

MythTV is a bitch to configure.

Actually, I found that MythTV itself was rather easy to configure. What was hard was all of the subsystems required by MythTV.

For example, on a fresh Gentoo install, I have to get audio working (ALSA or OSS), and then video (Xorg, nvidia drivers, tv-out, etc.) and then get the capture/tuner card working (bttv, ivtv, etc.). And get them all working nicely together...

Once I had all that done, MythTV was a snap to configure and have up and running.

From experience I've found that when building a new MythTV, it's best to test/debug each subsystem as you go along.... most times the problem you are having has nothing to do with "MythTV" per se.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (1, Insightful)

sulli (195030) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702446)

I found that MythTV itself was rather easy to configure. What was hard was all of the subsystems required by MythTV.

And this, dear reader, is why hardly anyone uses MythTV. Who has time to figure out that subsystems are involved, let alone configure them?!

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (1)

geckofiend (314803) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702523)

You're kidding right? Tens of thousands of people in the USA alone use MythTV. Myth is used in several commercial products as well.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (1)

Grey Ninja (739021) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702567)

And this, dear reader, is why hardly anyone uses MythTV. Who has time to figure out that subsystems are involved, let alone configure them?!

And this, dear reader, is why hardly anyone plays Windows games. Who has time to figure out that subsystems are involved, let alone configure them?!

See how equally ridiculous it sounds the other way around? Video, sound, etc. are all BASIC parts of the OS.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (1)

SynapseLapse (644398) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702373)

It would be nice if it could actually watch or import DVDs, like it claims it can. WatchDVD drops out after the first intro section, playing only 1 section. Import DVD does nothing. Yes I did install the CSS library. It did not help


I had the same problem on my box since Mplayer doesn't support menus on dvds at all. Install Xine and then change your Watch DVD to call
xine -pfhq --no-splash dvd://
instead.
It works great AND Xine let's you fastforward/skip those obnoxious FBI messages at the start of DVDs.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14702824)

Mplayer doesn't support menus on dvds at all.

Uhhh... is it just me, or is that like a major flaw? Maybe I should wait for myth 0.20.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (2, Interesting)

geckofiend (314803) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702434)

So... Which closed source competitor do you work for now? That's about the only reason I can see for spouting nonsense like you have.

I have to lspci, then spend weeks messing around with mythtv-config and mythfrontend to try and get it to receive TV
If you have a properly configured VFL, ivtv or DVB card it's as simple as selecting the card type from a drop down list.

It's not like I'm uneducated in these things. I was a principle engineer on a DVB set top box in the past.I do have a clue.
So to break it to you but no... you don't

However MythTV takes all that is obvious about television and renders it obscure and crash prone.Wow, I guess I better do something about the Myth backend and frontends I've been running since 18.1 without a reboot or crash.

The thing they need to fix is autoconfigure code that scans for TV cards, asks you some basic questions
You mean like the channel scanner that's been in there for ages?

My TV gets by without knowing what channels are being sent. It just finds them. MythTV should be able to work out of the box in the same way.
Take your TV to China, the UK and Germany and see how many channels it finds. Then see check out it's handy on-creen guide...

It would be nice if it could actually watch or import DVDs, like it claims it can. WatchDVD drops out after the first intro section, playing only 1 section. Import DVD does nothing. Yes I did install the CSS library. It did not help.
Watch DVD launches the DVD player software YOU configured it to use. How is it Myth's fault if your own damn software doesn't work? As for Import DVD doing nothing sounds like you didn't bother to compile with it enabled.

Of course all of the above is readily avialable in the documentation but since you're such an expert and all I guess you can't bother to read that eh?

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (1)

kernelpanicked (882802) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702479)

You might want to check out the book Linux Power Toys II. I work with one of the authors, and sat in on a demonstration of setting up MythTV. The demo covered the same setup described, in detail, in that book. It's well laid out and will get you going with a complete setup, within a couple hours.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (4, Informative)

nmos (25822) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702526)

You really should consider reading the setup guide. If you were running incompatable hardware then I could see how it would be difficult but otherwise it's really pretty easy. In short, if it's taking you weeks with supported hardware then you really need to stop thinking you already know it all and try just following the instructions.

Re:Perhaps they can make it possible to configure (1)

Ryan Amos (16972) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702777)

If you don't enjoy spending hours setting up a distro and installing MythTV, use a prerolled PVR distro like KnoppMyth [mysettopbox.tv] . KnoppMyth is integrated with the MythTV development process and includes current drivers for many tuner cards that aren't supported in the default kernel. It will also download and install NVidia drivers, basically everything except libdvdcss (for obvious reasons; but you can download and compile it yourself easily.)

The KnoppMyth installer assumes you're installing to an IDE hard drive though. You may have to get in and tweak the fstab after installation on SATA. I've been using KnoppMyth for about 6 months though, and it is very nice, easy to install, and comes with all the bells and whistles already configured.

MythTV legal? (2, Interesting)

ZachPruckowski (918562) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701812)

I'm not trolling or spreading FUD, but what is MythTV's legal status in regards to HD? I mean, if I was to consider such a solution (when I get a new Mac) over something like EyeTV, will it do broadcast flags if and when they come around?

Re:MythTV legal? (1)

chris234 (59958) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701837)

Last time the broadcast flag was floated around, hardware sold before the date was grandfathered.

Re:MythTV legal? (1)

/dev/trash (182850) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702818)

Hardware doesn't last forever

Enjoy it while it lasts (1, Insightful)

bogie (31020) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702038)

5 years from now something like MythTV won't even be possible because A) hardware required to receive signals won't be available on linux B) patents C) it will be outright illegal and you will face jailtime for unauthorized recording of your cable feed.

I think Mythtv and the rest of these HTPC packages will eventually hit a brick wall due to greedy broadcasters. Oh free htpc software market, we hardly knew ye...

Going "digital" and the promise of HDTV is one of the biggest scams perpetrated on US consumers in all History.

Re:Enjoy it while it lasts (1)

ThreeE (786934) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702095)

I will find your analog hole.

Re:Enjoy it while it lasts (1)

hawkbug (94280) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702209)

And that's the largest problem, you said analog. I want Digital. But I won't get it unless politics in this country are revamped in the next 5 years. Not going to happen.

Re:Enjoy it while it lasts (2, Interesting)

ThreeE (786934) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702312)

I'm with you brother. Unfortunately, I don't see the cable companies streaming intellectual property in lossless format down my broadband connection anytime soon. Thankfully, the analog hole will not introduce much noise -- certainly not enough for me to care much. In fact, I suspect I will introduce more noise via compression than by DRM avoidance via the hole.

Most people just accept the current way (I've got to buy a Tivo and pay for listings and I can't move touch the files, etc.) and move on to other things in their lives. I guess they think as long as I'm not getting screwed a whole lot, I'm okay getting screwed a little bit.

Me, my last MS product was Win2K. I subscribe to basic cable. I have cable broadband. I give my cable connection away via wireless in return for an occasional dinner/beer and pet-sitting. It all comes out to nothing anyway.

Re:Enjoy it while it lasts (1)

LordSnooty (853791) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702327)

Actually what's the best thing in my view about MythTV is the video browser/gallery, for watching things off p2p. I run my mythbox without a TV card - I find TV in the UK generally rubbish and not worth justifying a card. I simply dump anything of interest from my cable box onto a consumer DVD recorder or grab it from p2p (or make sure I'm in front of the TV). And now I use my mythbox to watch the p2p stuff. No DVD, no CD means low noise. I find it the best way to work and I'm surprised that virtually no-one is using it in the same way. It's impossible to run without a backend so I have to put up with "cannot connect" messages, and none of the video browsers are truly great, not surprisingly most of the focus goes on the TV cap side. I tried Freevo but still found myth without a card easier to set up.

But with all this talk of broadcast flags, I feel that I am in fact a pioneer, if those who say myth will stop working are right.

Re:Enjoy it while it lasts (1)

JWW (79176) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702407)

If that comes to pass I (and many other myth users) will just ignore/bypass/break these laws. Ignoring bad laws like some of the ones they're trying to pass now (and the DMCA already, of course I use DeCSS to play DVDs on my Myth box) is a form of protest.

What the broadcast companies are trying to ram down our throats is pure evil. If they suceed in making my Myth box illegal, forcing me to use _their_ (limited) PVR or try to make me whatch shows only when they're on, they won't make more money off of me. I will just chuck my TV to the curb.

Re:MythTV legal? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14702299)

Who cares if it is legal? as long as it works

I dont care if i break a stupid law like that. it doesnt make me feel guilty of anything and i wont ever be caught so the law is useless.

Re:MythTV legal? (1)

nmos (25822) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702491)

It's really up to your capture hardware to worry about the broadcast flag. I don't think Myth knows or cares.

Re:MythTV legal? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14702770)

All of the MPEG codecs etc included are being distributed illegally.

Lazy Question (0, Redundant)

hattig (47930) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701828)

1) What hardware can and can't run MythTV?
a) In particular, could a VIA EPIA-800 system run it (recording, playback, live tv, etc)?

2) Does it work with DVB-T (digital terrestrial) in the UK? What hardware for PCs can receive DVD-T, or can it use cheap USB receivers?

3) TV Guide - does it recognise DVB-T 7-day guide and now & next? Digital text?

This would go nicely in my planned shed PC, which wil have the above hardware (from an old system of mine) for internet and music. If I can add a cheap DVB-T card and add this functionality that would be even better.

Re:Lazy Question (1)

WTBF (893340) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701926)

1. Anything you can get linux to run on with full driver support should run fairly well with MythTV. An Epia should not be a problem, several people run a frontend on one and there is also a distribution to set one up as a diskless frontend easily (google MiniMyth).
a. The only problem you might run into is performance issues, although you might want some advice from people who have ran mythtv on old hardware about hat.

2. DVB-T works very well for me, in the UK with a Hauppage Nova-T pci card, which costs about £40. I believe the USB version costs more and is also not as well supported.

3. I don't know much about the guide, but it can pick up the EIT over the air data (what most stand-alone set top boxes use) for getting information, but I get it to grab info from Radio Times. Mine is set up to have 8 days worth of listings, and it works out automatically when to grab more to satisfy this. I plan all my TV in advance using the EPG (electronic program guide) and so have never tried looking for now and next, so I have no idea if that is there. Digital text is not supported out of the box, although there is a patch that someone is working on to make at least teletext work and it looks as if it will be included in the 0.20 release.

I hope this helps.

Re:Lazy Question (1)

hattig (47930) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701997)

Thanks for the reply, it's very handy and appreciated.

Certainly I expect that a DVB-T receiver would just write the raw bitstream to disk, thus not require much CPU for encoding as it's bypassed. I'd only need CPU for decoding, and an EPIA-800 can do DVDs (just) so it should do that.

I just read that there are multiple versions of the Nova-T and one isn't supported (yet). My EPIA-800 has a spare PCI slot so that's all good.

Re:Lazy Question (2, Insightful)

A Life in Hell (6303) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701935)

a) In particular, could a VIA EPIA-800 system run it (recording, playback, live tv, etc)?

If you've got the hardware mpeg acceleration working (XvMC), then yes. Otherwise, _maybe_.

2) Does it work with DVB-T (digital terrestrial) in the UK? What hardware for PCs can receive DVD-T, or can it use cheap USB receivers?

I'm told it works there too (I'm in australia, who are also dvb-t, using a twinhan card).

3) TV Guide - does it recognise DVB-T 7-day guide and now & next? Digital text?

Yes, but I found I got better results from the internet based guides still - the OTA tv guide seems to be lacking certain information (such as genre in some cases). ymmv depending on your broadcaster.

Re:Lazy Question (1)

A Life in Hell (6303) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701954)

as a side note on the power requirements without XvMC, my mythfrontend is a athlon 650mhz, and it works great. That said, there is a real advantage to putting the backend in something fast when it comes to commercial detection and transcoding for size (I originally had the backend on the athlon too, but I later moved it into the background on my desktop machine - where it works great)

Re:Lazy Question (1)

hattig (47930) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702012)

Thanks for the information, it's muchly appreciated. :)

Does anyone know? (1)

cosmotron (900510) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701872)

Does anyone know of a good PCMCIA TV Tuner card that is Linux compatible? I have been looking for one for a while and can't seem to find any.

Re:Does anyone know? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14702655)

Not PCMCIA, but can you use USB capture? On the Wiki there were some listed that worked.

HD Myth on a Via nano-ITX with CN400 (4, Interesting)

renehollan (138013) | more than 8 years ago | (#14701977)

I've ben putting together a mythfrontend on a Via nano-ITX board in a Silverstone LC08 case.

What attracted me to this platform was the CN400 H/W MPEG2 decoder chip it includes that is capable of deciding HD MPEG2 resolutions (up to 1080i) -- xine plays 1080i on this platform with the 1.0 GHz CPU about 30% idle.

Of course, this is fairly bleeding edge, and there are the occasional dropped frames. Support for the CN400 comes from the openchrome [openchrome.org] project, which also supports dri/drm, and xine hooks for the resulting xxmc accelleration that takes advantage of the CN400.

It isn't quite fanless -- there is a processor fansink that puts out around 14 dbA. I'm told the 800 Mhz version of the same mobo is fanless, and once I get this stable, will likely spend the $$$ to try one.

Captions support! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14702010)

"Closed captioning support on PVR-250/350 (but not 150/500) cards, DVB subtitles, and other cards supporting VBI information."

Thank you!!!!!
(deaf)

Much anticipation? (1)

no-karma-no-worries (818468) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702072)

Probably not. People who are dying for these new features already got them from the subversion repo...

Re:Much anticipation? (1)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702597)

Some people prefer to have a semi-stable system for their TV-watching habits, even if it means sometimes waiting utterly forever for a new Myth release.

I fall into this category. Time to do an emerge sync and then emerge mythtv. :)

DVB Subtitles (3, Interesting)

labratuk (204918) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702144)

Now that DVB subtitles are available, can you imagine OCRing the (image based) subtitles, saving them into the recorded stream and having full-text-searchable tv programmes?

Re:DVB Subtitles (1)

geckofiend (314803) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702670)

The subtitles are not "imaged based". If you can decode DVB subtitles you have them as ASCII text.

Time stretch in other apps? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14702153)

Why hasn't the time stretch feature of MythTV been ported to other apps? Gstreamer, MPlayer I'm looking at you. Time stretching is a great feature which allows you to speed up the audio (together with video) without changing the pitch (no chipmunk sounding people). Great for when you're short on time, catching up on a TV series or just more 'efficient' watching. You can get through a 30min show in something like 15 min when

The functionality is already built into a library (libsoundtouch? libsndtouch?), it just needs to be called for the audio processing.

Am I the only person that wants this?

(Please no derails about "do it yourself", etc).

Re:Time stretch in other apps? (1)

Aneurysm9 (723000) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702324)

I agree with you there. It pissed me off that I couldn't timestretch dvds played through mplayer on my mythbox.

Changing end times (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14702248)

Well,

I'm stuck with real player on linux to play some
radio programs. What do I do to change the end time?
Change the cron job to kill real player at a different
time.

p2p tv (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 8 years ago | (#14702393)

Anyone know of a software which would let one share the TV feed over the network? My friend has a TV card and we both have full-rate ADSL so would be cool to be able to watch his feed.

MythTV *IN THEORY* (3, Informative)

Andy Dodd (701) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702618)

Define "full rate ADSL"

Most likely your upstream rate is still not nearly high enough to stream video at a decent quality reliably.

MPEG-2 from a hardware encoder card at good quality will be 5-8 Mbits/sec. Transcoding to MPEG4 at good quality will take it down to around 1 Mbit/sec, which is still faster than 90% of the DSL upstream connections I've seen. Even with 1.5 mbit DSL, overhead means you're going to be pushing the limits of your connection.

For streaming internally within a LAN, Myth does EXTREMELY well. I routinely stream MPEG2 recordings over an 802.11g connection. (11b will not work for MPEG2 stuff, it will work for transcoded MPEG4.)

Re:MythTV *IN THEORY* (1)

havardi (122062) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702749)

Agreed-- I stream over 802.11g to my ibook, in bed. Since our bedroom is on the other side of the house from the access point, sometimes the show will drop due to the low signal. That only happens for live tv/ mpeg2 content. My stuff gets transcoded to mpeg4 every morning so I rarely have a problem.

CableCard Support (2, Interesting)

hoyty (35485) | more than 8 years ago | (#14702707)

I know the likelyhood of official drivers for Cable Card PC hardware on linux being released are about zero. Just curious if anyone has any thoughts on the possibility of reverse engineering drivers and hacking them in to MythTV? Hopefully once the hardware gets out there even in pre-built vista machines there will be some more interesting stuff to happen.
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