Dell's Open Source Desktop Systems 176
An anonymous reader writes "An article at XYZComputing goes over Dell's open source line of desktop computers and workstations. The N line is something which Dell began to sell recently, but the situation is much more complex that it would seem. There is often little or no discount given if consumers opt to go with FreeDOS as their operating system. There is also a great link in the article showing how Dell is selling AMD processors in their Accessories section!" From the article: "A major hurdle preventing the growth of Linux with non-professional users has been installation the operating system and dealing with the resultant compatibility issues. An ideal solution to this would be a major manufacturer which is willing to sell computers with Linux preinstalled. This would not only make it easy for users to buy a computer and have Linux running after simply plugging it in, but it would theoretically allow the manufacturer to lower the cost of a computer because software licensing costs could be minimized."
Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:5, Informative)
Didn't we discuss this over a month ago??? [slashdot.org]
Re:Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:2)
Re:Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:2)
Just because Dell's been selling them for about 5 years now if I recall and EVERY ONE of the submitter's acts as if this is a new development (...Dell recently began selling...) Appearantly nobody's figured out they install a FreeOS on the system that nobody is going to use so they don't have to worry about software support (not to mention every zealoty in the w
Re:Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:2)
Re:Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:2)
Re:Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:2)
Re:Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:2)
Or do you just toss out a dupe claim every now and then, and end up being correct just because 80% of the stories here are dupes?
Re:Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:2)
Don't be so cynical.
(Side Note: What's with all the TMM hate around here, anyway? Like his posts, don't like his posts, whatever. All this trolling of him goes way beyond retribution for whatever he might have done. Was there some sort of pre-slashdot forumn that he pissed everyone off on, or is everyone just overreacting?)
Re:Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:2)
Frankly, I am a major fan of TripMaster Monkey. I think his contributions here are grand. I don't know why you choose to hate him so much, but then again, that's up to you. I'll continue to read, enjoy, and learn from his posts.
Re:Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:2)
After your response, I re-read it and realized that you're attempting to compliment him. My apologies. Unfortunately, TMM seems to attract a metric tonne load of trolls every time he posts. This is probably why I read your post in a rather cynical light. Sorry about that.
I still want
Re:Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:2)
You wouldn't happen to know if he has any published journal papers available, would you? I would very much like to read more about the research he is most likely partaking in.
Re:Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:2)
(Just added him to my friends list).
[/offtopic]
Anyway, the idea of a "Dell Linux" (MAC and OSX comes to mind), should be fairly easy. Team up with RedHat, or Debian, and make a custom build for your hardware. If the PC was 100 cheaper for the same stuff it would sell well, and because of the tight integration with the hardware the end user would have a better expeiance. The front end effort is not too much of an issue, and once done the drives are simply cloned anyway.
R
Re:Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:3, Interesting)
Regarding the topic of Linux-on-Dells, I would prefer to buy my desktops from a local supplier who makes them to order and has no problem leaving the OS to me. He runs a minimal WinXP OS to test the h/w and burn it in, then wipes it and
Re:Slashdot's Open Source DUPE systems. (Score:2)
Didn't we discuss this over a month ago???
More than once, many times.
Your average user does no know regedit any better than vi, users don't give a rats ass about the details underneath as long as it works and isn't too touch to use, does not get infected daily and does not cost too much. Vendors like Dell are full of it as most of us know. They sell Linux in China but not in North Americas as not to piss off Microsoft. The sell Intel but not AMD as not to piss off Intel. Dell is NOT as Linux/UNIX fri
Re:More info on the same subject (Score:2)
Because a given subject is once discussed on slashdot, does that mean stories can NEVER be posted about it again?
Not without significant developments in the story since the original discussion, no.
There are many continuing stories here that get periodic repostings as new developments become known (the Sony rootkit story is a good example), However, this particular story is not substantially any different from the previous story I referenced in the GP...hence, it is a dupe.
There's a difference between pos
Nothing more than a PR stunt. (Score:4, Interesting)
More importantly, the 510n comes with an ATI card that will be difficult to get to work properly with X.org (dunno if Xi Graphics is still in business), whereas the 510 uses an Intel chipset that, while not great, will probably work better.
And why not simply install a popular Linux distribution on it from the get go? They could "brand" it simply by adding a package with Dell-logo wallpapers, themes, and icon sets.
Dell's just grubbing for some positive press.
Re:Nothing more than a PR stunt. (Score:2)
Re:Nothing more than a PR stunt. (Score:2)
Re:Nothing more than a PR stunt. (Score:2)
Re:Nothing more than a PR stunt. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Nothing more than a PR stunt. (Score:2)
I am sorry, but I have to call BS on that one - the help desk people I have had to deal with know absolutely nothing about computers, they simply read from a screen, this need not change if a company offers Linux.
Hardware manufacturers are totally dropping the ball here. Here you have a system that is freely re-distributable, anyone has the ability to re-desi
Linux and MS agreements (Score:2)
- MS sends reps to educate the sales and tech staff, MS mousepads and stickers flow like water
- MS gives conditional discounts on Windows and Office
- Red Ha
Dell and Linux support (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Dell and Linux support (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Dell and Linux support (Score:2)
I'd bet the real issue is that there isn't enough demand, or at least Dell is calculating that they aren't seeing enough demand to warrant making deals with Redhat/Novell/whoever.
Either way, I'm not sure why this prevents them from dumping a Linux version on there, and inserting a disclaimer that they won't support so
Re:Dell and Linux support (Score:2)
Re:Dell and Linux support - Would be nice if.. (Score:2)
It would be nice if Dell did preload Linux simply because that would be there way of saying that this version of Linux is certified by us to run on this unmodified system.
After all, that's one of my main arguments for buying Dell -- the fact that they build 10's of thousands of the same configuration of PC, and ca
Re:Dell and Linux support (Score:5, Interesting)
In the 1998-1999 timeframe, ready to prime the pump with their desktop offering, Be offered BeOS for free to any major computer manufacturer willing to pre-install BeOS on machines alongside Windows. Although few in the Be community ever knew about the discussions, Gassée says that Be was engaged in enthusiastic discussions with Dell, Compaq, Micron, and Hitachi. Taken together, pre-installation arrangements with vendors of this magnitude could have had a major impact on the future of Be and BeOS. But of the four, only Hitachi actually shipped a machine with BeOS pre-installed. The rest apparently backed off after a closer reading of the fine print in their Microsoft Windows License agreements. Hitachi did ship a line of machines (the Flora Prius) with BeOS pre-installed, but made changes to the bootloader -- rendering BeOS invisible to the consumer -- before shipping. Apparently, Hitachi received a little visit from Microsoft just before shipping the Flora Prius, and were reminded of the terms of the license.
Re:Dell and Linux support (Score:2)
Re:Dell and Linux support (Score:2)
Re:Dell and Linux support (Score:2)
Dell should also set up the machines being discussed to run various flavors of Wndows and a few distributions of Linux. Then list which software they tested on it, along with the weasel words saying that they don't provide support for them.
Sadly, not likely to happen soon (Score:5, Interesting)
What is *needed* is a start-up company to get capital venture funding and start a hardware store to compete with the likes of Dell... but to ONLY use Open-Source, and spend their captial funding on ADVERTISEMENT of the advantages of FOSS.
Something like a televised "Get the Factual Facts"...
I'd buy a computer from that kind of company on principle, and I'd CERTAINLY suggest that my less-than-technically-saavy friends would do the same.
G.B.Y.L.B.T.,
PastorEd
Re:Sadly, not likely to happen soon (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Sadly, not likely to happen soon (Score:2)
Re:Sadly, not likely to happen soon (Score:4, Funny)
$70 makes no difference whatsoever. Consumers are always happy to pay an extra $70. They often complain that prices are too low.
Re:Sadly, not likely to happen soon (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Sadly, not likely to happen soon (Score:2)
Small correction (Score:2)
That's not exactly how they phrase it. What they do say is if you buy x number less than you're buying now, and x is a very small number, we're cutting your discount to Y, much smaller discount. It's a subtle but significant difference as saying it your way might land them in hot water for price fixing. On
Re:Sadly, not likely to happen soon (Score:2)
You may have heard, they had a boffo IPO and aqcuired big funding to do just this. Soon there after they had a board meeting and decided they couldn't actually make any money selling Linux boxen, abandoned the entire business plan they'd sold to Wall Street and on which investors invested so heavily. Last I heard they sell niche software development t
Re:Sadly, not likely to happen soon (Score:2)
YHBT YHL HAND -- I think.
I mean, think about it: Anonymous Coward writes about getting "capital venture" funding to compete with Dell, and spend lots of money advertising about open source, and who would "CERTAINLY" advice his friends to buy from such a company. Posted on Slashdot, which is part of OSDN/OSTG, which is, (surprise!) a subsidiary of VA So
Re:Sadly, not likely to happen soon (Score:2)
I'm pretty sure Taco, Augustine and Raymond all got their FU money and I doubt they would try to run the same scam again.
Re:Sadly, not likely to happen soon (Score:2)
This was VA Linux's business model rather a long time ago. (They might have been VA Research at the time. I forget the relative time line.) They got stomped like narcs at a biker rally.
Cheers,
Richard
Tax privatization (Score:2, Interesting)
The real problem (Score:5, Insightful)
What would be good is a way to buy a dell and immediately sell the license on to a reseller.
Re:The real problem (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Wake up call (Score:2)
Re:The real problem (Score:2)
I ended up buying a Home system because it was $100 less then the comparable Small Business system with some rebate magic. I did not have any option to NOT receive the crapware on the system.
I have "Paint Shop Pro" and "Paint Shop Pro Album" links leftover all over the place.
Re:The real problem (Score:2)
Re:The real problem (Score:2, Interesting)
Unfortunately, you can't resell the license. That's forbidden. OEM Windows licenses are require to stay (and die) with the machine with which they were sold.
It's hard... (Score:5, Insightful)
But all the distros I've tried so far have had hardware issues that I consider pretty fundamental to a desktop. RedHat - getting nvidia graphics installed to run Doom3. SuSE - intermittent sound and wifi issues. Ubuntu - screen resolution issues, sound issues, unremembered wifi config. (Knoppix is next, fingers crossed.)
I can solve all of these, by getting down and hacking the config files, but the fact that these mature and well-backed distros don't Just Work illustrates the fact that getting a Linux desktop distro to work is a non-trivial job, and I'm not surprised PC manufacturers aren't interested in doing it and supporting it.
I don't know what the answer is - some of these distros are backed by big companies. It's a shame IBM didn't do a distro when they had a hardware division, I think it'll takes someone who does software and hardware (like Apple) to really get it right, sell you a machine that just works.
Re:It's hard... (Score:2)
Re:It's hard... (Score:2)
Re:It's hard... (Score:3, Informative)
Sigh...
Look, if you had just regular WinXP SP2 media, you'd run into the very same issues when loading the OS. You pretty much have to go out and get drivers for anything non-vanill
Re:It's hard... (Score:2)
Re:It's hard... (Score:2)
Re:It's hard... (Score:2, Interesting)
With some of the low end PC's ($350 w/ printer & monitor), you could probably argue that if not for the marked up cost of Windows that comes with it, they would be selling the hardware stand-alone at a loss.
If they pushed Linux, they would have to adopt a similar licens
someone gets it! (Score:2)
Re:It's hard... (Score:2)
Taking your logic into the market [tigerdirect.com] it's a miracle that Linspire are surviving.. and that HP even dare. [infoworld.com]
Come to think of it, how do all these guys [tuxmobil.org] do it?
Soon enough, a thread will emerge here with a seemingly unlimited supply logical reasoning accounting for the success of $VENDOR's Linux PC/Laptop.
Re:It's hard... (Score:3, Insightful)
Notice that all of these issues are with individual components, by which I mean that they're just driver issues. In another way of looking at it, it's not a Dell or a SuSE issue so much as
Re:It's hard... (Score:2)
You avoid this when you build your own system because you get to be in control of what hardware is used. This doesn't mean you have to use o
Re:It's hard... (Score:2)
OSS Computers usuallt are more expensive.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:OSS Computers usuallt are more expensive.... (Score:2)
In fact, ($Windows - $crapware) might be a negative number, which might make a Windows box cheaper to make for the manufacturer than a no-os system.
Why buy a Dell? (Score:4, Informative)
While I do have fond memories of Dell UNIX back in the early 1990s, I would not purchase their Linux-based systems today, just because the competition (ie. Sun) offers far superior products.
Re:Why buy a Dell? (Score:2, Insightful)
These stations are highly configurable and customizable to the task you want to perform. Whether it is Finance, Engineering, Video Editing (Avid) or 2D/3D Artistry.
Del
Re:Why buy a Dell? (Score:2)
I would be more inclined to purchase such systems from Dell if they bundled a Linux distribution such as SuSE or Kubuntu, rather than a product from Red Hat. I have had nothing but bad experiences with Red Hat products.
The same goes for HP. While I might not buy their worksta
Re:Why buy a Dell? (Score:2)
Solaris, on the other hand, has proven to be rock-solid and performant. When one can get a solid Sun workstation running Solaris, or a potentially crappy Dell system running a knowingly awful distribution like those from Red Hat, a smart person will go with the Sun system.
No so fast tiger.. (Score:2, Insightful)
If software licensing costs could be minimized then software revenue would be minimized.
Why would a software corporation engage in an activity where revenue would be minimized?
Answer: he wouldn't if he wanted to keep his job for long. The shareholders wouldn't stand for it.
Maybe the People's Repuplic Of Chiner will front the software.
Old Story, and answer is still the same. (Score:4, Insightful)
This is a lame conspiracy theory, and frankly makes the Linux crowd seem desperate. I'm not trolling, but you can't honestly think this is anything other then a wild attempt to explain slower then expected adoption rates.
The reason it is more expensive has to do with economics of supply and demand, volume, etc. How this got put on the front page TWICE in such a short period of time really blows my mind.
Last Time: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/10
Re:Old Story, and answer is still the same. (Score:2)
Maybe you could explain why they have to charge a HIGHER price on a computer if they had to invest LESS money on it? A $0 licence fee is always cheaper than a $10 "discount" fee.
I don't think this is a real supply-demand issue, but rather pressure from big corporations such as Microsoft, with secret agreements to hinder the distribution of Linux systems. Oh, you sell Linux systems cheaper than your Windows systems? F
Re:Old Story, and answer is still the same. (Score:2)
Dell transformed direct Windows sales and just-in-time manufacturing into an art form. The Fredos box that sits on a warehouse pallete costs them money.
Re:Old Story, and answer is still the same. (Score:2)
don't read if you loathe windows/ms (Score:2)
didn't anyone notice that to OEMs, Windows costs about $10 a pop?
Also, setting up Windows on different hardware configurations is pretty simple - download driver, point and click. Linux is very close most of the time, but too often it requires mucking about with drivers and whatnot - that increases the OEM's cost of setting up Linux for every configuration.
In other words, instead of paying $10 per windows license, they're pay
Paying more for a free OS (Score:3, Interesting)
OSS Computers are usually more expensive... (Score:4, Interesting)
This translates into a discount on the hardware for the customer.
Microsoft mentally writes it it off as the "Handle" so they can sell the Customer more "Blades" later.
Same concept as Razors, Game Consoles, Cell Phones....
With out that kickback the PC maker has to charge more for the hardware...
Anyone who denies the Microsoft Kick back doesn't happen is just deluding themselves. The Kickback is usually represented as "marketing" funds on the balance sheet.
Re:OSS Computers are usually more expensive... (Score:2)
Talk of kickbacks is for losers.
Dell or Walmart can casually place an order for three million widescreen laptops from a single Chinese OEM knowing that the default Win MCE install will sell every damn one of them.
There is the prospect of very healthy aftermarket sales of Windows software, hardware and peripherals, including the XBox 360 (with no need to maintain a seperate Linux inventory.)
There is the potentia
MOD PARENT REDUNDANT (Score:2)
Version 2 [slashdot.org]
I'm experiencing a sense of deja vu here.
Every once in a while, someone notices this (Score:2)
Its so simple, really.
1) Go to www.google.com
2) enter "dell freedos site:slashdot.org", click search
3) de-dupe!
They also sell Redhat preinstalled (Score:2)
Re:They also sell Redhat preinstalled (Score:2)
getting one of those would be neat.
Good review but ... (Score:2, Funny)
Review
but
a
hassle
to
read.
Maybe with Web 2.0 someone will invent a way to put more than two paragraphs of text on a single web page.
Solution. (Score:2)
How about open sourcing processors? (Score:2)
Otherwise this just comes across as a slimy legal trick to aid Intel in their defense against AMD's lawsuit.
They dont WANT lower prices (Score:3, Interesting)
They don't WANT to lower prices...
"Dell discounted low-end products too aggressively" [cnn.com]
They'll be happy if /.ers buy N systems -- extra $$$ for Dell!
Re:They dont WANT lower prices (Score:2)
Walmart has much the same problem.
The poor, under stress, aren't buying PCs at any price. The middle class takes one look at the s***t which passes for OEM Linux and spends their money on the midline Dell or HP at Target.
Non-Dell Companies selling Linux (and No OS) (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.emperorlinux.com/ [emperorlinux.com]
http://www.ibexpc.com/ [ibexpc.com]
http://www.linare.com/ [linare.com]
http://www.linspire.com/ [linspire.com]
http://www.linuxcertified.com/ [linuxcertified.com]
http://www.microtelpc.com/ [microtelpc.com]
http://www.outpost.com/ [outpost.com]
http://shoprcubed.com/ [shoprcubed.com]
http://www.sub300.com/ [sub300.com]
http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm [systemax.com]
http://www.walmart.com/ [walmart.com]
http://www.xandros.com/ [xandros.com]
http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html [tuxmobil.org]
http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed [debian.org]
http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html [linux.org]
http://tuxmobil.org/ [tuxmobil.org] (general information)
No OS
(Sabio made by Quanta, like Dell-latitudes)
http://www.avadirect.com/ [avadirect.com]
http://www.asimobile.com/ [asimobile.com]
http://www.powernotebooks.com/ [powernotebooks.com]
Re:Non-Dell Companies selling Linux (and No OS) (Score:2)
I haven't ordered from them, but I'm very intrigued by their build-your-own-but-let-us-assemble-it model. I think I'll get my next PC there.
The Dell trap (Score:2, Insightful)
b) They sell you an expensive Microsoft Operating System.
Dell needs to realize that they could sell you a cheap AMD system with Linux installed. Given the variety on AMD chips, they could sell you low-end "desktops" or high-end "workstations".
Re:The Dell trap (Score:2)
It's called Marketing Incentives. That little Intel jingle? Or the Intel symbol? Put it in an advert, get $$$ from Intel (... so long as you only sell Intel). Put a 'Designed for Windows XP' sticker on a case, get $$$ from Microsoft (
Whe
PDA effect or discouraging Linux? (Score:3, Insightful)
I wonder, though, if this is part of Dell just doing this to say they offer Linux. I imagine their agreement with Microsoft requires them to attach a Windows license to the machine thus keeping the price structure equal to their other PC's. Either way it really sucks. OEM's need to start telling Microsoft to kiss off in situations like this. If Dell, HP, Toshiba, and the like did this it would go along way in helping level the playing field. I know, I know, where's the incentive?
Windows costs (Score:3, Insightful)
is anyone else tired of Zonk's love for xyz? (Score:2, Funny)
Every day it seems like there's a new link to xyzcomputing, which is possibly the most uninformative and sophomoric tech site in existence. Without exception, every link he's posted to their crappy site has been either A) dumb and uninteresting or B) a repeat of a previous Slashdot post as well as dumb and uninteresting.
Here is the text of an email I just shot off to Zonk, i'll be curious to see if I get a response:
Where's the Problem? Who's Crying Now? (Score:2)
Why is it Dell *has* to sell Linux? Just go somewhere else. The whole "microsoft-evil-empire" argument doesn't work here.
There's a list of OEM's a mile long that sell product around the world, why are their products better if/when they are sold through Dell?
The same kind of discussion happens around itunes DRM. I choose not to have DRM in my life, so I make different choices. Make a di
Quick correction... (Score:2)
Dell has had the N line for at least 2 years now - We have a couple N systems in the office that were bought in '03. I think it's just that they've gotten more notoriety lately, so people think they are new.
Why should Pre-installed Linux be cheaper? (Score:2)
* If any non-techie type buys the computer the support costs will be higher simply because of the non-familiarity issues.
* As soon as they try installing windows software they will call support. (Though they can upsell Crossover, Win4lin, etc. in that case so it can be a win)
Don't forget the subsidies (Score:2)
Not Just Subsidies (Score:2)
2 cents,
Queen B
Recently purchased (Score:2)
Re:PC prices (Score:2)