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Novell to Standardize on GNOME

ScuttleMonkey posted more than 9 years ago | from the rollin-with-my-gnomies dept.

Novell 599

Motor writes "In what must be one of the least unexpected announcements of recent times, Novell says that they are standardizing on one desktop rather than supporting two different codebases. From the article: 'Novell is making one large strategic change. The GNOME interface is going to become the default interface on both the SLES (SuSE Linux Enterprise Server) and Novell Linux Desktop line. KDE libraries will be supplied on both, but the bulk of Novell's interface moving forward will be on GNOME.'"

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Best KDE-centric distro now? (3, Insightful)

edfardos (863920) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958628)

dang, KDE was a reason to like SuSE too, so what's the best KDE-centric desktop distro now?

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (1)

saskboy (600063) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958635)

"what's the best KDE-centric desktop distro now"

The only one I know of is Knoppix, but it's a live CD, and not typically installed like SuSE is.

http://www.knopper.net/ [knopper.net]

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (3, Interesting)

penguinrenegade (651460) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958669)

It's interesting to note that Novell open sourced SUSE, is now cutting 20% of Novell jobs and is standardizing on Gnome. I've heard speculation that the SUSE acquisition was to remove a competitor and they could proceed with Novell plans.

I'm not advocating that, I'm just noting that Novell has done a 180 and seems to be regressing. SUSE has always been considered one of the best distros out there, and at least OpenSUSE will continue with community support.

Kubuntu (2)

badriram (699489) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958693)

Personally I use Kubuntu, it has been working very well and they do have latest and greatest versions.

However I do support Novell on this, the linux distributions need to standardize on some desktop, and it was not helping having different distros from novell and suse using different window/desktop/ui managers.

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (2, Insightful)

Homology (639438) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958636)

I'm sure that KDE will continue to work fine on SuSE, but I wonder if Novell will provide less resources to KDE development as such.

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (2, Insightful)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958703)

The question is more: What will SuSE users say when SuSE is switched to GNOME. Who will buy it? SuSE is a KDE Distribution and that is their market.

In Europe you cannot conquer the Desktop market with Gnome.

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (2, Insightful)

DarkProphet (114727) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958809)

Well, speaking as a SuSE user, I am a bit disappointed in this move. I just can't stand GNOME, sorry. The only good thing I can say about it is that it gives KDE healthy competition.

As others have pointed out, I am concerned that KDE support in SuSE will lag.

As an aside, I've been using SuSE through the last 3 major versions and have bought and paid for a copy of each to support the distro. When I found out Novell was to acquire SuSE, I commented that I didn't care who made the distro, as long as they didn't screw it up.

I really really dislike using GNOME, so the last time I bought a copy of the distro will be the last.

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (0, Flamebait)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958839)

Well, SuSe managers always confirmed their committment towards KDE. It seems Ximian succeeded in brainwashing Novell US. Time to free Suse from Novell.

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (0, Flamebait)

cartoon (39734) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958815)

Cannot do it with Gnome? Why not? Users in general don't care. Only religious zealots really care.

You Misspelled a Word (4, Funny)

soloport (312487) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958844)

"In Europe, you cannot konquer the Desktop market with Gnome."

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (1)

Lightjumper (532700) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958644)

I was just having this talk with a co worker the other day. To me KDE was better, But both are lacking.

Wish MACOSX interface came to linux..

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958646)

Go for Kubuntu:

http://www.kubuntu.org/ [kubuntu.org]

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (3, Informative)

bbrazil (729534) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958656)

http://www.kubuntu.org/ [kubuntu.org] is one option.

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958657)

You can always use Gentoo [gentoo.org] and don't depend on this kind of choices by the distro maker, remember: it's all about choices.

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (3, Interesting)

Kjella (173770) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958665)

what's the best KDE-centric desktop distro now?

I don't want a KDE-centric distro anymore than I want a Gnome-centric distro. Personally my favorites are Ubuntu/Kubuntu for the latest desktops, Debian for server/workstation machines that need to be rock stable. And they both should do a good job at running Gnome apps in KDE and KDE apps in Gnome.

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (1)

ToasterofDOOM (878240) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958667)

Maybe Kubuntu, I tried it and liked what I saw, very clean and lightweight. However, it uses .debs instead of RPM, so if RPM's your thing, I dont know what. I agree that KDE is better, but GNOME's not too bad. At least they aren't using that GORM thing mentioned earlier this week. (Sorry, no link =D)

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958705)

Good thing, too, cause it would have made you look like even more of a moron. GORM isn't a desktop environment, its a development tool.

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (1)

pshuke (845050) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958671)

I agree that SuSE's KDE stuff was pretty sleek.
If I were you I'd have have a look at Kubuntu [kubuntu.org] or Mandriva [mandriva.com] - both were pretty KDE-centric last time I checked them out.

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (2, Interesting)

AccUser (191555) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958676)

Kubuntu [kubuntu.org] , which is a KDE version fo the wonderful Ubuntu [ubuntu.org] distribution, which incidentaly standardised on GNOME also. If you wait long enough, I expect you will see a supported version of Novell's distribution, but with KDE as the desktop.

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958677)

Gentoo

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (1)

shinsplints (927720) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958682)

From the article:
"Novell is making one large strategic change. The GNOME interface is going to become the default interface on both the SLES (SuSE Linux Enterprise Server) and Novell Linux Desktop line. ...
"The entire KDE graphical interface and product family will continue to be supported and delivered on OpenSuSE," said Mancusi-Ungaro."

Is KDE only going to be maintained on opensuse or is it still the default desktop? If it's still the default desktop, I'd imagine this won't affect most of us. I don't know many desktop users that use SLES or the Novell Linux Desktop.

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (1)

pivo (11957) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958706)

I just switched to SuSE because I prefer KDE. GNOME strikes me as cobbled together and amateurish. Oh well, there is http://kubuntu.org/ [kubuntu.org]

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (1)

kayen_telva (676872) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958742)

where does it say SuSe Pro is switching to gnome ? it only mentions SLES.

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (1)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958785)

...Suse Pro...

Suse Pro is no more. It has become Opensuse.

What's left for commercial offerings are SLES and Novell Desktop.

Re:Best KDE-centric distro now? (5, Interesting)

drgonzo59 (747139) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958841)

I, on the other hand, have always used KDE on Mandrake (now Mandriva), on SuSE, on RedHat. Then I gave Ubuntu a try, which uses GNOME as the default desktop. I thought "stupid GNOME" and went right way and installed the KDE Desktop with all the libraries and utilities. I used that on Ubuntu, but then eventually I found myself logging into the GNOME Desktop more and more and now I am only using GNOME.

Honestly I don't even know the reason, maybe it is the Dark Side of the Force, or maybe the panels just have less clutter, maybe stuff just works better. I don't miss the transparency, the shadows, the SVG icons of KDE, at first I thought they were great, but after a while it didn't matter. Maybe it is also less stuff to configure and less options to worry about. Sometimes I think in UI design "less is more", but of course it is still very much a subjective thing, so I am glad there is the choice and the options for everyone KDE, GNOME, Blackbox, Xfce and others.

Re: Best KDE-centric distro *now*? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958807)

So you imply that before this annoucement, the SuSE Linux Enterprise Server or the Novell Linux Desktop was the best KDE desktop out there? Color me skeptical.

fp (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958633)

fp

Cost savings - makes sense (2, Interesting)

Dark Paladin (116525) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958639)

Granted, I'm on OS X user who uses Linux servers, and I really don't give a rats ass about Gnome versus KDE - I just look at whatever I'm using and launch the app I need.

For Novell to work on one interface isn't saying "Oh, Gnome is the Hawt and KDE is not!" - it's just a cost saving move, and I can agree with that. The question is: will this help lead to a "one Linux Desktop" future where the de-facto standard is Gnome. When that happens, will more apps be Gnome based, or will we continue to see the dual-track desktop development?

Re:Cost savings - makes sense (3, Interesting)

MrResistor (120588) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958794)

For Novell to work on one interface isn't saying "Oh, Gnome is the Hawt and KDE is not!" - it's just a cost saving move, and I can agree with that.

No, it's a lot more than that. Suse has been a KDE-based distro forever. Many of the KDE developers are Suse employees, and while Gnome has been included pretty much as long as it's been available, it's been practically unusable. (I don't know if it's just been a Suse thing, or if the Gnome tools really are that much more primitive.)

This is a sea change.

The question is: will this help lead to a "one Linux Desktop" future where the de-facto standard is Gnome.

I wouldn't be surprised if this were actually Novell's intention. I'm sure there are plenty of vendors who will be quite pleased with this decision. Unfortunately, I think a lot of Suse customers will not be so pleased. Maybe it's the Novell curse striking again?

FUCK ALL OF YOU SLASH FUCKING FAGS! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958643)

Oh well (2, Insightful)

42Penguins (861511) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958645)

If you really want to, you can still use KDE, right? This seems like a change that would mainly affect newbies, from a company with a network OS that a newbie can easily use. I welcome our Novell overlords that make things simple, if lacking in choice.

Huge (1, Insightful)

djhankb (254226) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958649)

This is huge...
I have always been a fan of the Gnome Desktop, as I've been a RedHat user since the early days.
KDE Has always felt klunky and thrown together compared to the new(er) versions of Gnome are currently.
I'm glad someone is also finally throwing down the line and choosing a single desktop.
-H

Re:Huge (1)

arevos (659374) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958789)

I've always felt that KDE feels more mature and, for want of a better word, more solid, perhaps, than Gnome. Though that may just be what I'm used to and what I prefer. It's a shame that SuSE's moving away; few major distros support KDE by default, and now we're one less.

OMG! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958655)

What about.. TEH CHOICE!!!!11??? Novell are fascists! Down with Novell!!! Open source is all about choice!! And making sure you are confronted with choice ALL THE TIME!!!

Oh wait, they are standardizing on Gnome and not KDE? Never mind. Novell rocks it.

This is a stupid move (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958660)

SuSE IS KDE. Without KDE, SuSE is nothing.
Fedora is Gnome.

What I am going to do? Use Mandrake?. No, Mandrake is a BAD distribution. Right now I am using Debian and SuSe, I'll use only Debian

Do any major distros standardize on KDE? (4, Interesting)

EnronHaliburton2004 (815366) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958662)

RedHat, Sun and Novell all now standardize on Gnome, correct? Do any major distros standardize on KDE anymore?

Re:Do any major distros standardize on KDE? (4, Informative)

saterdaies (842986) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958718)

Mandriva is still firmly standardized on KDE.

Re:Do any major distros standardize on KDE? (1)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958766)

As a long time KDE and Mandrake/Mandriva user, I doubt and lament Mandriva will be among 'major distributions' if they hold on to KDE. It ought to be (financially) hard to be the sole large supporter of a 'desktop'.

Re:Do any major distros standardize on KDE? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958775)

Wrong... for a start, Mandriva's config tools are all GTK-based. The only thing you could say is that it has KDE selected as the desktop during install. Mandriva long ago announced they were giving parity to GNOME... my guess is that it won't be long before they do the same as Novell.

Quite apart from that, Mandriva is hardly a "major commercial distributor" ditto Debian... and especially stuff like Gentoo, Slackware etc etc and all the other no-hoper one-developer ego distros.

Re:Do any major distros standardize on KDE? (1)

ralf1 (718128) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958830)

I believe the OP said "major distros". The fact that its the one you use doesn't make it a major one.

Re:Do any major distros standardize on KDE? (1)

benjamindees (441808) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958729)

Mepis, Knoppix, Linspire, Mandriva, Lycoris

Debian is desktop-neutral, but there is a decent percentage of KDE users. And there is Kubuntu.

Re:Do any major distros standardize on KDE? (1)

plasticsquirrel (637166) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958779)

Slackware Linux dropped GNOME [slashdot.org] last March. According to the changelog, Patrick dropped it because it was becoming too much of a pain to keep up with. As a Slackware user who doesn't use either KDE or GNOME, I'm happy that the change was made. It opens up more time for Patrick to spend working on the Slackware core. As he wrote, "Slackware does not need to ship every choice".

Gnome can be good (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958663)

...as far as style and eye candy, take a look on gnome-look.org!
I've customized my Ubuntu 5.10 with the metacity theme "Blended 1.5", the "NuoveXT" icon theme and the grass wallpaper from one of the leaked longhorn/vista betas. Try it!

How it will look like (3, Interesting)

anandpur (303114) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958664)

May be somethink like this, you can see some names from Novel
http://tango-project.org/ [tango-project.org]

Management (3, Interesting)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958668)

SuSe is a KDE distribution and SuSE customers want KDE. Desktop-Linux means KDE in Europe. So what do some managers of Novell do? Listen to Ximian which is a developer's booth without a market.

Unbelievable. They ruin a distribution.

A real company would listen to customers first, then allocate the ressources to development. Suse was very good on that in the past.

A bad company is driven by engineering. The role of marketing is to sell what the developers invented or want to create.

The second approach is doomed to fail.

Re:Management (4, Informative)

craXORjack (726120) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958761)

A company that stays in business does what is necessary to keep costs down. If you read the article:

The GNOME interface is going to become the default interface on both the SLES (SuSE Linux Enterprise Server) and Novell Linux Desktop line.

All that is happening is that the distributions they are pushing to corporations will use Gnome as the default. Big deal. SuSE Personal/Professional/whatever will continue as normal.

Re:Management (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958863)

SuSE Personal/Professional/whatever will continue as normal.

KDE is being pushed out into OpenSUSE and left to be supported by the community. KDE now has the same status at "Novell the company" as it does as "Red Hat the company" -- ie... none at all. Split hairs however you like...

Re:Management (1)

kayen_telva (676872) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958763)

where does it say that SuSe Pro will be using gnome ? they mention SLES only.

Re:Management (1, Insightful)

sjvn (11568) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958834)

Here's the deal. First, read the fine article. It does say that it's both the desktop and SLES. You'll also see that the SUSE Desktop--the community version you can grab at

http://www.opensuse.org/ [opensuse.org]

will continue to support both KDE and GNOME.

SLES, the server version, and Novell Linux Desktop, the commercial distributions. though, will be built to use GNOME as its primary interface.

Now, if one is at all clever, you can certainly run put KDE on SLES or NLD. After all, besides the fact that it's not that much trouble to add *any* of the Linux GUIs to any distribution, in the case of SLES and NLD, the integration work will still largely have been done in the community SUSE desktop.

The real difference is that Novell isn't going to be spending any of its own dollars trying to support two interfaces.

Steven

Re:Management (4, Insightful)

Sri Ramkrishna (1856) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958770)

It isn't GNOME thats interesting it's Mono. Novell needs to standardize on one platform in order to create a single homogenized environment. My guess is that they plan to sell their commercialized applications using Mono. Since Mono uses GTK for it's toolkit it's going to look odd to have one desktop using one toolkit and their tools using another toolkit. It creates a disharmony.

As for customers, they won't care what the desktop is as long as it does what they want it to do. Corporate customers are not addled and opinionated like us FOSS types. They don't have a favourite distro. It's whatever it takes to get the job done. If they do have opinions by in large it's going to be a miniority. As you say, as long as Novell listens to it's customers they can put resources into extending GNOME to do what customers need. The desktops are not that different, perhaps one provides more customization than the other but there is nothing that can't be added since it's all open source.

sri

Re:Management (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958810)

Well, who cares about toolkits. Why not run Mono under KDE? Why not develop GTK apps for KDE. KDE is a desktop environment, no application toolkit.

The visual differences are mostly artificial ones. We will see crosstheming very soon.

"As you say, as long as Novell listens to it's customers they can put resources into extending GNOME to do what customers need."

No. SuSE has a market and has customers. They chose SuSE because of SuSe's KDE committment, because they know that KDE is well supported under SuSE and KDE serves their needs best. It is not about preferences of geeks. It is about the the European market they bought. And you cannot impose a product on a market.

Re:Management (1)

EnronHaliburton2004 (815366) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958854)

My guess is that they plan to sell their commercialized applications using Mono.

If that's true, then I wonder why they cut some of the Mono staff. Consolidation of the Mono sales team into the Novell Sales Team, or something?

From the article:

"There have been minimal cuts in Mono [an open-source implementation of Microsoft's .Net], and none of those cuts were in developers."

Re:Management (0, Troll)

Famatra (669740) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958777)

Not being able to have propritary applications run/interact on KDE without a license to TrollTech is a problem. It gives too much control to them and limits the potential of people choosing closed alternatives (games etc.) from intracting fully. What stops TrollTech from charging super high prices if/when Linux becomes popular? Too much uncertainty for SuSE/RedHat to be at their mercy.

There is no reason why Gnome cannot be as good as KDE given enough time and resources, assuming it is not as good as or better than KDE now.

Re:Management (1)

Homology (639438) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958840)

Not being able to have propritary applications run/interact on KDE without a license to TrollTech is a problem. It gives too much control to them and limits the potential of people choosing closed alternatives (games etc.) from intracting fully. What stops TrollTech from charging super high prices if/when Linux becomes popular? Too much uncertainty for SuSE/RedHat to be at their mercy.

Huge chunks of any Linux distribution is GPL, and since the QT GUI toolkit is GPL as well, what's your problem?

Re:Management (1)

arivanov (12034) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958790)

Seconded.

Typical case of American disregard for market needs outside America.

Seen that many times in the days when I used to work for an American company. As one of my coworkers used to say: American "technical" middle management are like seagulls, they come from across the ocean, shit all over you, nick your sandwiches, scream loudly for a while above your head, make a right mess and after that fly back leaving you to do janitorial work for a few weeks.

It is a real pity that this has happened to SuSe. And based on what I see I think I will drop out of consideration any Novell products for the foreseeable future. I do not like seagulls.

Re:Management (1)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958820)

And based on what I see I think I will drop out of consideration any Novell products for the foreseeable future. I do not like seagulls.

That's a pretty myopic view. Aside from standardizing on Gnome, do you really have any other gripes with what Novell has done with Linux? They've actually done a lot to free previously non-free software.

Re:Management (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958803)

Desktop-Linux means KDE in Europe.

Uh, really? Here around Munich that's not true at all. Both desktops are well known and used, AFAI can see.

Re:Management (2, Interesting)

rthomanek (889915) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958826)

I can only second that.

I am not really sure whether the desktop preference has something to do with Europe vs. US - though, incidentally, I *am* in Europe, I *am* using SuSE and I *am* a strong KDE supporter - I detest Gnome, to put it straight (why? HUGE widgets, esp. buttons, swapped "OK" and "Cancel" - the list is long; OK, the rant is over, it is not the time nor the place to discuss personal preferences).

The fact is that both Gnome and KDE have huge userbases and the decision to favor Gnome is at least not understandable to me. There is no point in exploring the specific differences between Gnome and KDE but suffice to say that KDE is at least not worse than Gnome.

They ruin the distribution, as the parent poster said.

Shall we expect KOpenSuse anytime soon?

Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958670)

The sooner Linux gets over its visual identity crisis the better.

nuts (3, Interesting)

arkhan_jg (618674) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958680)

This is not good news. SuSE was one of the big beasts that helped develop and improve kde in a distro, and is one of the main reasons I used it in the past. I did get sick of RPMs in the end though.

Why is that so many people prefer kde over gnome, yet redhat, debian-based distros like ubuntu and now SuSE use gnome as their primary? What main distros will be left that uses kde in preference? I can only think of mandriva now.

I'm not criticising gnome, it's a fine project and a good desktop environment, but I really like the unified desktop, reusable kparts and configurability you get with kde. I'm far from alone, as the vibrancy of kde-look.org shows. How come gnome, which is not *that* much superior to kde (some would argue that it's inferior at the moment) is making all the headway?

Re:nuts (4, Interesting)

slavemowgli (585321) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958707)

Debian etc. have historically rejected KDE because Qt used to not meet Debian's Free Software Guidelines etc. Those days are long over, of course, but the animosity towards KDE seems to have remained.

As for Novell... hard to say. But it's worth noting that many core KDE developers are from Germany, and SuSE is (was), too; Gnome, on the other hand, is pretty much a US development, and Novell is also a US company. Coincidence? Maybe, but I wouldn't be surprised if these things did play a role, in both cases...

Re:nuts (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958887)

Why is that so many people prefer kde over gnome, yet redhat, debian-based distros like ubuntu and now SuSE use gnome as their primary?

Because the people that use KDE are only a small and vocal group? Because KDE/Qt is just a piss poor effort to duplicate windows and MFC?

Good Idea (2, Insightful)

shinygerbil (926573) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958681)

I use KDE and Gnome on the same distro. Generally I use KDE, but I can use either just as well, so if most major software companies go the Gnome way, I'll be right there with them. At least somebody is trying to make some useful decisions, rather than splitting things up. If only more companies would do this...

sweet... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958685)

Great news. Now if they switch to deb instead of rpm, I'm in.

Not KDE or alternative WM Killing News (1)

bagboy (630125) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958688)

Many other distros will still have alternatives available. Gentoo makes it easy for either WM. Qt is highly used on embedded and portable devices - so KDE will not be dying off.

It's true, the times are a changing (2, Insightful)

matt me (850665) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958689)

This is another in a chain of announcements this year that show how much in the world of Linux. Today's is a final good riddance to the days when *the* choice was Red Hat vs SUSE, America vs Europe, GNOME vs KDE. I guess this is a move to make SUSE more comfortable for Ubuntu users, the product which I bet (open)Suse and Red hat (Fedora) see as their biggest threats right now. Windows users are difficult to pull. But to make users switch distros is easy (I'm in Fedora, but very much attracted to Ubuntu right now). I think we'll be seeing more user-pulling moves from distros soon. shipit is only a start.

Bye-bye, SUSE! Bye-bye Novell! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958695)

what reason would i now have to choose SUSE enterprise servers over redhat's offering? redhat is the original, SUSE now just a copy.

i'll opt for the original. or look if there are any other alternatives...

There were signs (4, Insightful)

saterdaies (842986) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958702)

To an extent, one could see this coming. SUSE 10 was the first edition of SUSE to treat both desktops equally. Rather than having YaST default to KDE, it now prompts users to select either GNOME or KDE with no indication of prejudice. They've also been adding GNOME-centric things like Beagle. Novell's own NLD chose GNOME over SUSE's KDE for NLD 9. SUSE 10 was one of the first distributions to support GNOME 2.12 (beating Ubuntu while Mandriva which came out significantly later still uses GNOME 2.10).

While I'm still a bit surprised to see Novell give such a slight to KDE this soon, there were signs that they were becoming a GNOME operation.

Re:There were signs (2, Interesting)

canuck57 (662392) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958778)

While I'm still a bit surprised to see Novell give such a slight to KDE this soon, there were signs that they were becoming a GNOME operation.

I am not, although KDE is a good interface, I have always favored GNOME. So to me, seeing SUSE carry GNOME right there along with KDE was good and is now one of the reasons why I now run SUSE 10. The other is SUSE 10 supports my 54g wireless card.

But I suspect there is more to it. Proprietary Qt libraries inside of KDE have always plagued KDE adoption. And quite frankly, I like programming in the GNOME/GTK+ environment and usually have no trouble to move such works to Solaris x86 or Sparc.

Qt is KDE's achilles heel.

Re:There were signs (1)

Homology (639438) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958861)

But I suspect there is more to it. Proprietary Qt libraries inside of KDE have always plagued KDE adoption. And quite frankly, I like programming in the GNOME/GTK+ environment and usually have no trouble to move such works to Solaris x86 or Sparc.

Proprietary Qt libraries? I've got news for you: QT is GPL licensed as well.

Very surprising! (3, Insightful)

Morky (577776) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958708)

In a shocking turn of events, Novell goes with the desktop founded by one if their key employees. I really thought that Ximian purchase was just a ploy to take the top Gnome developers out of the game so that KDE could flourish. I guess it was because they actually like Gnome. Go figure.

From OSnews (1)

matt me (850665) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958709)

To quote "Rumors circulating that Novell is going to kill off its popular Linux desktop lines are completely false. The GNOME interface is going to become the default interface on both the SLES and Novell Linux Desktop line - "The entire KDE graphical interface and product family will continue to be supported and delivered on OpenSuSE.""
Just thought should port some accurate reporting over to Slashdot.

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=12551 [osnews.com]

Re:From OSnews (1)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958739)

"will continue to be supported and delivered on OpenSuSE." So KDE will be supported as a second class citizen by SuSe? No thanks! They are not serious! Why did Novell buy a KDE distribution? In order to kill its market and convert it to Gnome? I think this management of Novell is 100% clueless about the market of SuSe.

Re:From OSnews (1)

cartoon (39734) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958847)

Novell didn't buy a KDE distribution. They wanted an enterprise ready distro. Two choices: Red Hat or SUSE. Red Hat was probably too expensive.

The enterprise/business end of Linux is Gnome. Sun, Red Hat, Novell and IBM all lean to Gnome, some more than others.

"KDE distribution"... get real. Who chooses a distro on the basis of the primary desktop environment?

Re:From OSnews (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958760)

This still means that

0) SUSE Linux as a retail product seems to be dead (was also expected).
1) KDE won't be default on openSUSE
2) KDE will just be maintained by the community.
3) KDE will work on SUSE as well as KDE on Redhat does.

expected result:

4) KDE people will switch to Kubuntu or elsewhere.

Good move (0, Flamebait)

gimpimp (218741) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958710)

This is a fantastic move by Novell. We use Suse at work, and I always make sure to put Gnome as the defaut desktop on a new install. I'm not a Suse user at home, as it's too much of a 'mish-mash', with a Gnome desktop, you're still using KDE/QT apps for config. Hopefully, we'll see a new breed of Gnome/mono config tools for a real Gnome desktop.

Go Novell!

Makes sense ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958712)

The look and feel of KDE represents its code structure. The same holds for GNOME.

READ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958723)

"The entire KDE graphical interface and product family will continue to be supported and delivered on OpenSuSE," said Mancusi-Ungaro.

Gnome is an error. (2, Interesting)

Lolaine (262966) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958731)

When Novell Linux Desktop was released, we as Novell Partners started using it, and used it's default desktop (Gnome 2.6) as our desktop. Having used Gnome in the past year or so is my biggest computing life's error. Everything have been problems for us. Nothing works as expected, session management is a mess, gconf crashes a lot, esd is still there and nautilus is inflexible. Gnome is being guided towards being a Desktop for dummies, but it's weird behaviour only make users unconfortable with that Desktop. Now I'm going back to KDE, and I am currently remembering what was to have fun in the desktop.

Also, we support some clients with NLD9, and everything are problems, from mime types to gconf. Our support team has started to hate Gnome a lot. Our roadmap for our clients is to switch them to KDE, but with this decision, it will not be a Novell "official" product, it will be probably OpenSuSE.

With Novell having bought Ximian, it's logical that Novell standarizes on Gnome, but with this decision, SuSE only losses, and so does Novell. Will have to think twice before suggesting a partner renewal... They still have cool products, but they are taking the grown decisions (again and again)

Re:Gnome is an error. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958796)

I agree. This is a misguided decision - if it's true, then it's goodbye SuSe for me. GNOME has been falling behind KDE as a desktop for a long time, and their philosophy has diverged to a point of no return. I simply won't throw away my time working in a desktop-environment designed for computer illiterates, sorry.

Re:Gnome is an error. (1)

pintpusher (854001) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958811)

Gnome is being guided towards being a Desktop for dummies, but it's weird behaviour only make users unconfortable with that Desktop.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Although I've only got a couple months of GNOME under my belt and haven't taken the time to perfect its set-up like I did with KDE, I find I am constantly frustrated with by things that should "just work". Example, there is no way I can see to make nautilus open sub-folders in the same window when file-browsing. Maybe I'm stupid (wouldn't be the first time), but I hate my desktop cluttered with a bunch of unneeded windows from farther up the directory tree. There also seems to be less direct access to the nuts&bolts of things in GNOME than in KDE. I'm sure its all impression, but its putting me off and I'm just about ready to head back to KDE for good.

of course, I use Debian, so this is probably all moot :p

Re:Gnome is an error. (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958879)

There should be either an option in the preferences or if that still isn't the case, you can use gconf-editor to turn Naulitus into browse-mode at default: /apps/nautilus/preferences/always_use_browser

About less direct access, yes, Gnome only exposes the important stuff via the GUI, rest is only available via gconf-editor, however I havn't found that to be much of a problem, since gconf entries are documented and searchable it isn't much of a problem to find them.

In the end I think Gnomes by far biggest problem is Nautilus and they should have got rid of that years ago, it never was pretty, it was extremly slow, down to simply being completly unusable for large directories for years and only got fixed resently, I have no idea why they picked at the default file browser. There are many aspects that I love about Gnome, but I could never stand using Nautilus for longer periods of time, it simply makes so much obvious things just plain wrong. Gnome should have choosen Rox, turn that a bit more into a Gnome app and be done with it, it provides a much more sane user experince.

Re:Gnome is an error. (0)

Sri Ramkrishna (1856) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958864)

What are you? Some kind of nut? You're going to move off of a supported vendor solution to your own? What are you goign to pay Novell for then? If you have a problem with GNOME gconf or whatever it's the vendor's job to fix it. Thats what you're paying them for. This sounds more like a bunch of hand wringing and then going off to do your own solution without any support. Who is going to fix all your kernel bugs, yoru glibc bugs, and everything else?

jeezus..

sri

KDE and Gnome as one? (1)

bigtrouble77 (715075) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958748)

I really wish kde and gnome could somehow combine their projects. I primarily use gnome, but there's a ton of kde-centric apps that I love to use. Unfortunately they don't look good under gnome. Most people aren't going to go through the loops to get the fonts in kde apps to render properly in gnome.

I think a gnome-style window manager with the features and app support of kde would be killer. Sometimes I think gnome is a bit too simplistic. It seems both projects have different design philosophies so I doubt this would ever happen.

Re:KDE and Gnome as one? (2, Insightful)

Elektroschock (659467) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958780)

Well, be serious. What real interoperability problems are left? Today you can configure Gtk apps to look like KDE ones. Intrestingly most "gnome" apps are just non-qt ones thus assimilated by the gnome desktop which lacks integration. It was a problem from Gnome that it is unable to interoperate properly with KDE. Is it visual appearence? Give us a few month and there will be no discussion on that anymore. Crosstheming is very close.

Re:KDE and Gnome as one? (1)

bigtrouble77 (715075) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958837)

I agree, I've never had a kde app not work in gnome. As far as kde apps not looking good in gnome and vice versa, I don't think most people care whos fault it is. They only care if things work well. Cross theming, if it is what I think it is, would be a phenominal step foreward.

If the two groups could interpolate perfectly, then there'd be no reason for a distro to pick one over the other. Obvously they're not there yet.

Re:KDE and Gnome as one? (1)

Biomechanical (829805) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958876)

With the two different projects using two different core interface libraries like they are, I can't see them combining at any time.

I currently use KDE. I like the Mac OS style menu-bar being up the top, adjusting to which ever program I'm currently using, as well as having my KMenu, "System Tray", clock, and search function link all neatly arranged at the top of my screen.

Right at the moment I'm running a compile of KDE 3.5.0 Beta 2 - Hard Masked.

There are several Gnome apps I like, but that menu-bar thing is annoying - the fact that GTK doesn't seem to have any way of copying the Mac OS style of screen top menu.

That's the first thing that put me on KDE instead of Gnome, it's ability to be configured to look like damn near anything resembling Windows XP or Mac OS X, and although I have had my desktop look like Mac OS X for a little while - care of Baghira - I've only kept a few noticeable interface influences on it while customising the desktop to really be mine.

Gnome was not so easy to make it look the way I wanted, so it didn't stay for long on my desktop.

The important thing is, I have the choice. We all have this choice, and that's actually more important than how any one of these individual desktop environments is built because if there's one we don't like, we can move on to another one.

All of our apps will work - gnome apps just need a few gnome libraries installed, as do kde apps - so we can pick and choose on a whim.

I'd like some aspects of Gnome put into KDE, and some aspects of KDE copied into Gnome, but I don't expect that to happen for a while.

They're still free though - free to use, sell, and screw with under the hood - so maybe someone one day will fork both into this drooling monstrous hybrid of whiz-bang eye-candy and god-awful tastelessness some of us desire. :)

In other news (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958749)

In other news the GNU/HURD project decided to standardize on the bash prompt.

"We at GNU believe on standardizing on what is relevant to developers. You can easily multitask to multiple instances of enterprise bash without using Engelbart's moose, mouse, whatever that weird invention is called".

Not no naysayer! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958756)

"In what must be one of the least unexpected announcements of recent times, [...]"
What's with the double negation? This ain't not unnecessary!

SUSE has ruined why I loved them (1)

tannhaus (152710) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958782)

This has really floored me. The thing I liked, and I noticed many reviewers liked, was the polish the KDE desktop had in SuSE. Everything seemed to fit together wonderfully. It was a distribution for those that loved KDE.

Gnome is behind KDE and probably always will be. Every new release of QT pulls KDE further to the front. It really sickens me that the major linux distros are choosing an inferior product and trying to force it on us. Smells a little bit too much like Microsoft versus OS/2 to me.

Re:SUSE has ruined why I loved them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958868)

How does this remind you of Microsoft v OS/2?

Insane

Seriously? We should care about this? (4, Interesting)

jht (5006) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958799)

Posters here on Slashdot and all over always wonder why Linux hasn't made more of an impact in the desktop world. Well, this is the biggest reason (or representative of it, at least). In the Windows world or even the MacOS world, no regular users give a hoot what window manager they run. They don't care which packaging system they use, either. All they know is that they buy the OS and it works, and that programs written for the platform just work. And if they go out and buy an off-the-shelf program for their computer, it just installs. The underlying technology is irrelevant. Windows users don't really care about the difference between InstallShield and .MSI files - they just know that they double-click on SETUP.EXE or INSTALL.EXE and it installs the darned program. Mac users know they either double-click to run an installer or just drag a program into their Applications folder. And yes, I know there's ways to run X11 apps on both Mac and Windows, but basically the user doesn't have to know the difference between, for instance, Carbon apps and Cocoa apps. They don't choose between competing windowing systems. They just use the computer.

Linux systems are more or less founded on choice. Which is a great thing, but has no relationship with user-friendliness or consistency. Remember part of the original motivation behind GNOME - it was because a crew of folks was unhappy with the QT licensing. So they reinvented the wheel to deal with it. That's what's great about both Open Source and Free software, but it's also why a wide-open platform is not going to gain mainstream use anytime in the foreseeable future. Even if either KDE or GNOME shut down all their development efforts tomorrow, someone would pick up the dropped torch and keep it going. And then competing vendors would still have to pick one or the other.

The day Linux desktops start spreading is the day all the big projects decide they need to focus less on eye candy and more on making the system as simple, consistent, and reliable as possible. Kind of like OS X.

Re:Seriously? We should care about this? (2, Insightful)

LordPhantom (763327) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958849)

Wait, what?

the day Linux desktops start spreading is the day all the big projects decide they need to focus less on eye candy and more on making the system as simple, consistent, and reliable as possible. Kind of like OS X.

Do you seriously think that Mac isn't BUILT on eye-candy? OSX has the most glitzy window manager out there.... fortunatly for Macintosh it also works.

Trying to say that Linux will be sucessful if they don't focus on the "cool" factor is simply uninformed - the truth is they need to do both, focusing on only eye-candy or stability is myopic.

Nice... (3, Interesting)

Motor (104119) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958804)

I distinctly remember submitting this as "standardising"... only to have it edited and Americanized (both in the title and most irritatingly in the text itself). What a thoughtful action from a website with editors that wouldn't know the correct spelling of a word if a dictionary was violently shoved up their arses.

(k)ubuntu -- complete platform for the enterprise (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958812)

looks like mark shuttleworth had a good gut feeling about including kubuntu into his realm. now that novell shuts down their complete line of desktop and workstation products [ http://linuxtoday.com/it_management/2005110401826O PSSNV [linuxtoday.com] ] he's the new kid on the block. he even announced at the ubuntu conference that he switched his personal desktop to kubuntu [ http://www.kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-commitmen t.php [kubuntu.org] ] already.

instead of novell's silly shareholders (who drive management to mimic redhat in order to) succeed catch up with the first player on the linux server market, they are now challeneged by a newcomer with a complete offering in his portfolio: rock solid server foundation (debian), and two fully supported desktop environments (ubuntu for gnome, kubuntu for kde).

sweet alternative!

i'll certainly consider this platform now. we have 5 SUSE sles servers running our business, and we have about 120 suse 9.2 kde desktop workstation systems. we are currently evaluating nomachine nx and freenx to switch the workstations to thin clients accessing a loadbalanced dual-node desktop application server. gnome sucked here completely -- kde with its kiosk lockdown mode shines.

i'm sure I can realize this with debian and/or kubuntu too.

novell goes down the same road they went down with dr-dos, word-perfect and netware. what their management touches turns to shit.

farewell! this time forever.

If this is true... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958829)

1. What happens to OpenSuSE?
2. I wish luck to Novell & Gnome as this DE has indisputable qualities (as usability and beauty, for instance), but...
3. What if someone really prefers KDE (like me)? Though luck? Wait for someone to make a Knovell?
4. I'm in a position to recommend Red Hat or SuSE for server usage, whatever weight my opinion might have... most big IT providers require one or other. I was favouring SuSE. Sorry, Red Hat just won a recommendation if this news is true.
5. I use Mandra... er, Mandriva, which just got closer to be recommend it for servers (for desktop, too, but guess what, my boss just loves Windows).

DISCLAIMERS:
1. Trademarks belong to their respective owners.
2. These opinions are mine, personal, not of my employers.
3. Why I prefer KDE?

Gnome simply has killer looks. I envy it, honestly.
But, when it comes to DEs, I'm ready to trade a spectacular appearance for better internal workings.
And my perception is that KDE works better than Gnome. I guess KDE advances faster than Gnome, towards a kind of integrated experience which get closer to Mac OS in the near future, leaving Windows behind (as it may already have done).
This said, KDE and Openoffice.org could use some dieting and I hope they get unbloated as is traditional with free/open source software.
4. What about an auto-numbering feature in Slash for people who itemize everything? ;-)

suck it up KDE fans, you can still help us win (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958831)

You don't need Netcraft to confirm that KDE is dying. With your major distro dumping you, the future looks bleak. It looks like the "dual licensing" strategy tied to the fortune's of one company (one company that used to sleep with SCO by the way) is dead. Instead, a true industry standard is emerging : GNOME.

Don't whine and don't go back to your Macs, join the Linux revolution and embrace open source, support GNOME !!!

In the end, do the right thing: support the winner of this battle and help GNOME make Linux number one on the desktop.

Novell/Suse Desktop Now Matches Suse Support Level (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#13958835)

Gnome Desktop = Novell/Suse Customer Support = CRAP Other commercial distro may default to Gnome, but they are not exclusively Gnome. Even Redhat allows you to use KDE. Suse can blow...

Big Mistake (2, Interesting)

ac7xc (686042) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958856)

Novell is making a huge mistake by attempting to shove a Desktop down the throats of consumers and businesses. Some like KDE and others like Gnome it is the purchaser that should have the choice.

Here are the links (0)

Wikipedia (928774) | more than 9 years ago | (#13958885)

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