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Novell Headed To Linux Enterprise Desktop In Asia

simoniker posted more than 10 years ago | from the desknux dept.

Linux Business 145

Bill Kendrick writes "Novell's Asia-Pacific division is working on Linux desktop trials in Hong Kong and Malaysia, with the expectation that Linux's adoption on enterprise desktops will continue to grow. They expect many more companies to start embracing it within the next 12 months." A spokesperson from Novell comments: "I don't see it as a watershed where everybody's running Linux desktops, but you'll start to see the emergence of some examples of companies that have embraced Linux and are going down that path."

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Shut up (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433354)

you CHINK!

lowercase words as to not upset slashcode

first (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433358)

W00 hoo !!! first !!!

interesting (-1, Offtopic)

bangular (736791) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433364)

if by Asia they mean Ice Cream trucks

More open source news for various Asian countries (5, Informative)

tcopeland (32225) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433388)

...can be found at AsiaOSC [asiaosc.org] .

They've got good info on each country - i.e., here's the page on Malaysia [asiaosc.org] . They also serve as a mirror for Open Office, various BSDs, multiple RedHat releases, and so forth, so they're doing more than just gathering news. No banner ads, either.

People needing re-education (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433578)

So your saviour, Jesus Christ, died to deliver you from evil - but not from nasty movie tickets with a number on them [local6.com] ?

Fucking morons.

It's you who should be sitting in Guantanamo getting re-educated and punished for stupidity!

Asians Love Linux!! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433389)

But the burning question is:do they call it Rinux over there?

Mod this funny.

Re:Asians Love Linux!! (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433494)

-1 Lacist

Re:Asians Love Linux!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433516)

"But the burning question is:do they call it Rinux over there?"

I dont know, but the muslims prefer Red Towel linux

Thoes who embrace linux... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433393)

Always get fisted in the "end".

Re:Thoes who embrace linux... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8434469)

And those who disparage Linux end up sucking on the gigantic choade of a humongous penguin. Why don't you go fuck off bitch ass?

Yeah, well... (5, Funny)

bad enema (745446) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433399)

This is only because they couldn't get the paper clip to speak Chinese.

Re:Yeah, well... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433488)


This is only because they couldn't get the paper clip to speak Chinese.

No, Microsoft got it working in late 2001 but the buckteeth were hard to animate on "Crippy"

Re:Yeah, well... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433507)

No, Microsoft got it working in late 2001 but the buckteeth were hard to animate on "Crippy"

No, it wasn't that. The coders and graphic artist had a communication snafu. Everything worked fine. However, they didn't think a gang-banging homeboy speaking Chinese would go over to well.

Re:Yeah, well... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433788)

Also the repetitive "ME SO HELPFUL! ME SO HELPFUL!" being yelled by the animated chopsticks didn't go over well either.

Re:Yeah, well... (4, Informative)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433801)

Of course you guys are trying to be funny, but it may be significant to note that both Hong Kong and Malaysia are countries where a lot of computing is liable to be done either in English or, at the very least, in a Roman character set.

English is the second official language of Hong Kong.

The official language of Malaysia is Bahasu Malaysia -- not "Chinese" -- and in written form it generally uses Roman characters.

I'd be interested to see what these desktops look like, but I'm betting Asian language support probably wasn't one of Novell's big motivating factors.

Something to think about. (0, Redundant)

bad enema (745446) | more than 10 years ago | (#8434173)

Yes, this was an honest (and lame) attempt at being funny, but do I really warrant being modded "off topic"? Some of these moderators and their heightened sensitivity are exactly why we have these karma whores around - if you try to be funny, you get modded "flamebait". Thanks guys.

Oh yeah, guys, don't forget to mod this "troll" or whatever too. I'm also trying to see if reverse psychology works or not.

Re:Something to think about. (0, Offtopic)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 10 years ago | (#8434550)

Hey man, don't blame me -- I have mod points right now and I posted instead.

But that's just the thing; you plays your cards, you takes your chances. Being funny is hard. Wield not the Rod of Funny in vain!

(And you're still at +5 as of now, so quitcher whinin'.)

Whjy would they do that? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433400)

After all, you can buy copies of WinXP in that region for $5, even less if you are any good at bartering.

Re:Whjy would they do that? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433424)

you can buy copies of WinXP in that region for $5,

Yeah, but $5 can be like two months pay in half of those countries.

Re:Whjy would they do that? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433477)

But aren't customers choosing Linux because of its usability, friendliness, wide support for hardware and richness of applications?

Oh, wait. Every country with higher than 50% piracy rate standardized on Windows. Wonder what will happen to Linux if Microsoft starts charging $25 for Windows 2000.

Re:Whjy would they do that? (1)

TheLittleJetson (669035) | more than 10 years ago | (#8434097)

because they would rather put the squeeze on MS with a viable product that could compete elsewhere in the world?

Good move. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433401)

In Asia, everyone roves rinux.

More to embrace than meets the eye (4, Insightful)

millahtime (710421) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433405)

The more that an open desktop is embraced the more that open standards are embraced stopping big companies like M$ from having closed standards.

Can't do business if you can't share information.

Re:More to embrace than meets the eye (4, Funny)

PacoTaco (577292) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433736)

Thank you for posting Slashdot standard comment #14. As always, this greatly enhanced the discussion of [Novell Headed To Linux Enterprise Desktop In Asia]. We hope you continue to make similar contributions in the future.

-The Management

Re:More to embrace than meets the eye (2, Interesting)

the_mad_poster (640772) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433739)

I'm sitting here with a mingled Office XP / 97 environment because of the huge compatibility problems between Access 97 and 2000. Since when does Microsoft give a flying frip about sharing information between its own products, much less anyone else's? Do you really think they'll give a damn even if they lose market dominance?

monkey bawls! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433406)

suck 'em!

Don't forget! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433414)

To pay your $1599 love offering, you IP-hating, slant-eyed, cock-smoking teabaggers!!!!

And don't YOU forget to... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8434513)

...put a shotgun in your ass and pull the trigger you freedom-hating, pencil necked geek, cock-smoking teabagger AC. Fuck off and die bitch.

Partnering for a domestic content rating? (4, Insightful)

G4from128k (686170) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433416)

This raises the possibilty that Novell will partner with some Chinese software firm in order to pass China's impending domestic software content laws [slashdot.org] . I'm sure that the Chinese government would give Novell a nice domestic content seal of approval if Novell brings some IP and perhaps $$$ to the Chinese table.

Re:Partnering for a domestic content rating? (4, Insightful)

coupland (160334) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433531)

Surely you're joking right? You're not actually contending that Novell has the business volume and financial muscle to sweeten the pot for a nation that boasts a population of 1.3 billion? China doesn't need Novell, their economic policy is quite simple: "We have such an enormous population that we can afford to have exclusionary trade policies and it won't hurt us." Whether this is true or not isn't something I care to debate, but the fact of the matter is they don't want to fill the coffers of *any* North American businesses. Be it Microsoft or Novell.

Re:Partnering for a domestic content rating? (5, Informative)

Vancorps (746090) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433665)

Sorry but you're plain and simply wrong. Run on over to Novell's website and look at their press releases. Novell has been involved in creating the whole chinese infrastucture. Cisco and Novell have been making massive amounts of profits in China in the last few years which is what essentially has been keeping Novell alive, same goes for Cisco for that matter. Remember not long ago Cisco execs reduced their salaries to $1 to same 10,000 jobs at Cisco, they are back to full salary now and Cisco is hiring new people. China is not as nieve as you take it for. They understand that duplication of efforts to achieve the same result is wasteful.

That doesn't mean they won't build their own desktop where there is wiggle room for error. When it comes to servers China will stick with the products that have a reputation such as Netware and Linux and shy away from tarnished companies such as Microsoft and Sco.

In Capitalism, man exploits man...[*] (2, Funny)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433829)

"Cisco execs reduced their salaries to $1 to same(sic)"

So a handful of Cisco execs makes the same as 10,000 productive employees?!!! That'll show those Commie Bastards that Capitalism Works!(tm)

Re:In Capitalism, man exploits man...[*] (1)

Vancorps (746090) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433969)

I dislike the policy, but its still a hell of a lot better than what IBM does. They like to increase the salaries of their management, fire their employees and hire Indians to do the work cheaper. Totally against the original principles of which the company was founded.

Also I do think its great that the board members chose to save jobs rather than fire a shit load of people and give themselves bonuses for raising stock a quarter of a point.

Re:In Capitalism, man exploits man...[*] (1)

Yokaze (70883) | more than 10 years ago | (#8434169)

> Totally against the original principles of which the company was founded.

So, on what principle do you think International Business Machines [wikipedia.org] was founded?

Re:Partnering for a domestic content rating? (4, Insightful)

coupland (160334) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433839)

Run on over to Novell's website and look at their press releases. Novell has been involved in creating the whole chinese infrastucture

I ask this with all respect and seriousness: "Are you on dope?" No, what I mean is that I took your comment on good faith and went to look at the Novell web page. The only thing on the Press Releases web page is the press release from today, March 1st. And there's nothing on the Corporate Press Releases page even remotely related to China. Under International Press Releases there isn't even a section for China. Did you think I'd be too lazy to check their web site on your suggestion?

Now as for being wrong, I'm not. China is well aware that their infrastructure is based on Cisco hardware and Intel-based PCs and Microsoft software. That's why you see things like the Dragon chip and threats of domestic software quotas. China wants to transition their population from importing these technologies from western companies and develop them locally. Whether it be Novell or Microsoft, China doesn't want to import all their technology from a potentially hostile nation. You know, a nation with a pre-emptive strike policy?

And furthermore, how can anyone with a straight face say that Novell can sweeten the deal for the Chinese government by offering IP? We're talking Linux on the desktop here, what IP does Novell control that has relevance to Linux on the desktop???

Re:Partnering for a domestic content rating? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433899)

Ahh, the dragon chip. I'm still waiting for China to start building and shipping these to the western world.

$30 bucks for a new PC. I can handle that!

Re:Partnering for a domestic content rating? (2, Insightful)

Vancorps (746090) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433938)

China and Novell

I apologize for the crappiness of the press room. It was once a far more intelligently designed place to gather information. But as you can see there is plenty of news on Novell's site relating to China and their rapid adoption of Novell services.

As for Novell sweetening the deal, I never said that. As for Linux on the desktop, take a look at Both E-Directory and Zenworks. Both have very direct impacts on the desktop both Linux based and Windows based.

As for China dealing with U.S. companies; Do you honestly think China is of the mind that U.S. companies act like the U.S. government? Seriously, they don't give a ten shakes about Bush's foreign policy, China actually has very little to fear from Bush as he knows all his corporate interests want decent relations with China. If they did care about that policy why would they have and still implement Cisco products? Why would they be importing our technology both legally and semi-legally?

Re:Partnering for a domestic content rating? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8434193)

China doesn't need Novell, their economic policy is quite simple: "We have such an enormous population that we can afford to have exclusionary trade policies and it won't hurt us."

The NERVE those no-good asians have! Can't we sue them for infringing business method USA has been succesfully using since landmark election of 2000? I mean, we did it first time, and now others are using same strongarm knucklehead tactics too! It's such non-anti-unfairness.

I say, this is why we need stronger Intellectualist Proprietarian laws. What next? China will attack a mid-east country for oil? Today it's China, tomorrow god knows it's India and then Nigeria if we don't kill it before it grows.

WTF? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433426)

WTF is with the headline "Novell Headed To Linux Enterprise Desktop In Asia"

Is that supposed to be English? I hope it's not a sign of the headlines to come when all of /. editors speak engrish.

Linux (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433427)

Hello!

I am very interested in open-sourcing my Asian back end.

Is Linux good for this, or it it whack?

Thank you!

Heironymous Coward

Re:Linux (0, Flamebait)

LinuxIsEvil (756706) | more than 10 years ago | (#8434373)

It is if you either a communist or someone with lots of time to spare configuring it.

Novell on the move (4, Insightful)

KingDaveRa (620784) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433430)

I think this is Novell's biggest Linux move since buying SuSE, seemingly putting some weight behind it. I'd be interested to see how they fare out in the asian countries.

China will love them, what with the red colour scheme and all...

Re:Novell on the move (1)

Vancorps (746090) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433706)

China already loves them, they've lovers for quite some time now.

A former professor of mine recently moved to China to assist in the roll-out. Good stuff!

Why Linux dominates fucked-up contries (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433441)

It's interesting to note that Linux adoption is widely driven by mostly fucked-up and corrupted countries like Malaysia, China, Russia, Nigeria and others. The developed economies, like Germany, realize that adopting Linux is too much of an effort in the first place.

Why is it happening? Well, suddenly out of nowhere the support companies that are licensed to install and support Linux in those economies appear, and it's no one's surprise that suddenly the head of the biggest Linux company in China is the son of current government boss.

For the same reason in Indonesia Linux spurred new wave of corruption, where thousands of dollars are washed away into "support contracts" to unknown companies (belonging to some government officials), because generally government was used to Microsoft-size budgets and now the same money is not spent on FSF or Apache Found., it just disappears.

Re:Why Linux dominates fucked-up contries (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433530)

Whoever modded me down is a fanboy who cannot stand the facts. I have good knowledge of Asian markets, but obviously the facts do not stand up to uour Grand Idea of Linux Future, and instead of dealing with the reality you attempt to deny it.

I was wondering when Novell would get into (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433442)

the market. They have the software, the knowhow, and the capital. Their reputation, although a bit outdated, is a bit of a boon as well.

Any Novell execs listening, open-source Openexchange [suse.com] and break the demon's back!

Re:I was wondering when Novell would get into (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8434499)

A good reputation means $ in China, too bad for MS.

I'm thinking of this in the context of Apple which also has a loyal following.

I'm hoping Apple won't join the DRM side of thinking, hoping that they're just doing just enough DRM to have made the iMusic store happen.

Sorry for being offtopic, Apple probably hasn't got much chance in the Chinese (government) market because their stuff is "elite/bourgeoise/expensive".

But I think you need a certain reputation to do business in China, which has a history of ideologies.

East great place to start (4, Insightful)

millahtime (710421) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433448)

The east is a great place to start. They are embracing technology over there greatly. The newest cell phones and other technology are going on there. Plus the east (including china and india) has 1/3 of the worlds population. Pretty smart place to start.

Re:East great place to start (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433884)

Asia has actually half of the world population. China and India alone have 1/3 of the world population.

Asian Markets... (5, Insightful)

SisyphusShrugged (728028) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433450)

Asian Markets work very much off of a piracy basis for their software, the large amount of software not being paid for or used within the context of a western office environment.

This appears to me to be another part of the trend of companies salivating over the numbers...(Ooohh, 500 Quadrillion-Billion-Monillion people in China, thats a lot more than America!)

Re:Asian Markets... (4, Insightful)

RailGunner (554645) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433559)

And that piracy is a big reason why Linux can work so well in the Far East. When you have a culture, or class of people, that are used to just pirating what they want, then it's a pretty easy sell to say - instead of dropping a few bucks on a pirated OS that you really can't verify whether or not it's been tampered with, here take this free, open source OS.

Now, once the market in Asia is set up that it predominantly runs Linux - I think there will be a huge market that opens up for custom software for Linux, that could be a boon to the US economy - selling custom code and service to the large economies of Asia.

And since Linux is free, and represents Freedom, maybe the people there will realize how great freedom is and want more of it.. putting pressure on the tinhorn communist dictators that run the region.

Exporting freedom and capitalism never hurts...

Re:Asian Markets... (2, Interesting)

Vancorps (746090) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433774)

You're expecting a bit much from a linux introduction. I'll assume you are just dreaming though. The fact is most of the pirated software isn't tampered with, it works and many are quite happy with it since they know how to use it. The problem is still in making the OS intuitive.

Say what you will about Windows but it is intuitive. My professor who now lives in China teaches children that have never even seen a computer. He sits them down in front of MS Word and they go off writing quite well. They even manage to find other features like clipart and can create presentations. Obviously it takes some time but it only takes some finger pointing for the kid to get to where he wants, I'd say thats pretty simple.

That said Linux most definitely has a place as it represents a path to international legitimacy. A company running Linux will find it much easier to get contracts from other countries than a company known for running pirated software.

I'd say all the tech exposure is just plain great. Pretty much no matter what OS they end up running U.S. and European countries will have a chance to sell products to a much larger market.

Re:Asian Markets... (3, Insightful)

warrior_on_the_edge_ (605123) | more than 10 years ago | (#8434294)

Say what you will about Windows but it is intuitive

There is NOTHING intuitive about current input devices and methods.

What you MEAN is:

"It's like the previous version"

Who enforces the GPL in China? (-1, Flamebait)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433489)

They don't give a rats ass about regular licenses, why would they give anything back to the western world re: open source?

Tubgi8l (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433505)

Have left iWn it has to be fun in time. For all population as well despite the they're gone Mac isn't a lemonade asshole about.' One out of business else to be an perspective, the another cunting smells worse than a see... The number is dying. Fact: then Jordan Hubbard dabblers. In truth, that *BSD 0wned. have somebody just every day...Like NIGGER ASSOCIATION than make a sincere implementation to that he documents At this point list of other FreeBSD core team official GNAA irc Many of us are very own shitter, too many rules and continues to lose Can be like Live and a job to users', BigAzz, at this point that should be join in. It can be fear the reaper knows for sure what we don't sux0r as myself. This isn't Numbers continue stagnant. As Linux non nigger patrons mistake of electing Usenet is roughly the reaper BSD's market share. Red its corpse turned

Re:Tubgi8l (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433534)

This is what you get when you apply a Markov algorithm to slashdot at -1. Up your threshold to 2 or so and you might slip something passed the moderators.

Best move from Novell in 10 years (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433522)

A swelling market (Asia) + a swelling technology (Linux) + an empty battlefield (desktops). Novell's sphere of influence is going to increase tenfold if they execute this correctly.

just maybe (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433527)

The Linux desktop is simply not ready yet. If you rush Linux to the average desktop user they'll try it, most will dislike it (in comparison to MAC & Windows) and it'll put them off ever trying it again.

I think it'll be another decade until Linux is firmly on the desktop, and I don't think we should start introducing it to the average desktop user for another 5yrs yet.

Like a fine wine, it will mature in time.

Re:just maybe (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433631)

Linux has changed a lot since 1997. You should give it another try. The only shortcoming is that proprietary vendors (Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia) don't offer software for Linux. I don't think waiting 5 years is going to change that.

Re:just maybe (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433915)

The only shortcoming is that proprietary vendors (Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia) don't offer software for Linux.

They don't offer it because Lunix users refuse to pay for software. It's that simple. Here's a suggestion to all the dirty, sexless Lunix hippies: start respecting copyright and stop using warez.

Re:just maybe (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433959)

>Here's a suggestion to all the dirty, sexless Lunix hippies: start respecting copyright and stop using warez.

Also (probably) a strong reason why there's not a lot of games for Linux (yeah, yeah, there's UT2004 - but what else?)

My experiences with Linux on the desktop (-1, Offtopic)

dfj225 (587560) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433541)

While linux may be great with in a server or backend environment, it still is not ready for the desktop in my opinion. I just recently installed Mandrake 9.2 on a laptop of mine. I actually managed to get my PCMCIA wireless card to work, but not without some hassles at first. The first thing I decided to do after getting on the net was to update my system. This turned out to be a mistake, as my KDE desktop got all screwed up. Most of the links didn't work and the "start" menu was completely useless. I really don't know what happened, and I had no idea how to fix it, so I decided to install again and just not apply that patch. Now, if this had happened to a system that I had been using for some time, I would have been utterly annoyed by losing a large part of the functionality of my desktop. I also installed XMMS. I got this to work after I had to fight some driver settings, but the RPM I used never even added it to the start menu. I think that if you use a RPM that comes off of the install disk, this should definetly be an included feature. Maybe it was just the distro I was using, but it doesn't seem like it was feature common to other distros that I have tried either.

In short, it felt like I was fighting with the system the entire time just to get some trivial things to work. Linux may be a great, stable, and free kernel, but the rest of the things built on top of it, the things that really matter to the user, still seem to fall short in areas. Right now, I rather just install Windows and know that everything will work. I rather deal with security patches and keeping my antivirus up-to-date than deal with config files in an operating system that I don't know too well.

Americas and Europe next? (3, Interesting)

nycsubway (79012) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433552)

I'd love to see that here. I think a Linux desktop would make a lot of people happy, the users for having linux and the managers for saving money. Maybe if it takes off there, Novell and others will try it elsewhere.

Re:Americas and Europe next? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8434399)

OT: Did you get my email regarding the error on the reference card?

Eric

The War Is Over (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433580)

I've been following the rise of Linux for the some time now. I don't run it, I run OS X and don't give a damn about the GPL.

However, all the MS people I talk to have had a dramatic change of heart with the recent annoucements like this one. Nothing they've said explicitly, but the tone has changed from denial to they are finally coming to terms with the fact that Linux 'will' take over at some point. It's now only a question of how fast.

The US will probably lag behind the rest of the world, but it's only a matter of time now.

Re:The War Is Over (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8434025)

If you have been following the news over the past few months you'll see:

* MS execs are starting to warn about the growth of the company slowing
* The 'Linux discount' is spreading like mad across the globe
* Longhorn is getting pushed farther back
* The virus/security situation actually seems to be getting worse every week
* MS has nothing to replace their desktop and monopoly revenues
* MS shareholders are getting pissed at not getting much bigger dividends
* They've lost the server war
* MS execs have been doing nothing but selling for the past three years
* The possiblity of insane product liablility class action lawsuits are rising for the virus/security nightmare over the past ten years

I could go on all day.

There wasn't anyone particular point, but somewhere in the last six months the entire computing world, minus MS and SCO, collectively went "Fuck it, I'm switching to Linux"

No, MS isn't unfortuenately going to just dissapear tomorrow, but the amazing thing about the growth of Linux is not the velocity, but the acceleration.

Hurray for more jobless people! (-1)

MalaclypseTheYounger (726934) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433622)

Ok, so does this mean in a few years all of the people working in the USA as Linux developers/administrators will all be outsourced to China?

I think it's time to get my forklift driving license back.

Apps for Linux desktop (5, Insightful)

prostoalex (308614) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433630)

Here's the list of the best-selling software titles for 2003 [itfacts.biz] (by quantity sold, not dollars fetched):
1. TurboTax 2002 Deluxe
2. Norton Antivirus 2003
3. Turbo Tax 2002
4. Norton Antivirus 2004
5. TurboTax 2002 Multi State 45
6. Taxcut 2002 Deluxe Block
7. Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition Upgrade
8. Microsoft Office XP Student and Teacher Edition
9. Taxcut 2002 State Block
10. Norton Internet Security 2003

You can see that tax software is huge thing for a bunch of people to have on their desktop. Office suite is another. Internet security (not just antivirus, but user-friendly firewall, port manager and other utilities).

Office is pretty much covered with OpenOffice, so that's done. As for Internet security tools, I am not sure which ones exist for the end user, but perhaps industry could come up with some.

Tax software. Is there a good tax package for Linux, allowing those millions of accountants, small business owners and middle-class Joe's like you and me file their taxes?

Out of free (of charge) software that is getting huge market share of desktop, what would the Linux equivalent of:
- Kazaa
- Real Player
- ICQ/AIM (ok, Gaim is a good alternative)

A Possible APP FOR THE Linux Desktop (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433678)

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Re:Apps for Linux desktop (2, Informative)

conway (536486) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433720)

First, the antivirus and firewall utils are unnecessary for linux (yet) : no widespread virii for linux, and firewall config utilities come with any decent end-user distro.
(Since firewall is built into OS, no need for a separate SW package).

Realplayer has a linux version as well, and there are plenty of good alternatives, like Xine or GMplayer, which support a LOT of codecs.

For Kazaa work-alike, there's a bunch of Gnutella clients around

So the only thing that remains is tax software..

Re:Apps for Linux desktop (2, Insightful)

FyRE666 (263011) | more than 10 years ago | (#8434003)

I'd disagree about the firewall config utils that are bundled with Linux distros. True, if you wish to attack the config file manually, you can literally set up any kind of firewalling rule set. However, this is not possible with any GUI/web tools I've looked at.

Even Firewall distros like smoothwall lack features I'd expect in a corporate firewall. EG, (for Smoothwall) the capability to block outgoing ports - blocking outgoing port 25 for anything other than the company mail relay(s) should be one of the first entries in a ruleset in these days of spam-relaying malware.

Re:Apps for Linux desktop (0, Insightful)

psavo (162634) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433734)

You can see that tax software is huge thing for a bunch of people to have on their desktop.

Yeah, sure, if you're living in a ass-backwards country where you really have to calculate your taxes yourself.

There are countries where this is done where they have all the needed information.. taxation office.

Re:Apps for Linux desktop (1)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433904)

That's fuckin' wild, man! I assume you're talking about .fi , here.

I've always considered it a moral failing of our government that the average schlub either needs to pay $$$ to some tax-shaman or spend $$$ to buy software to do his taxes. Even us DIY'ers end up squandering hours of our precious lives just to figure out what our tax responsibility to the government is each year.

Re:Apps for Linux desktop (2, Insightful)

cpeterso (19082) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433936)


I once made a $50 math mistake on my 1040 tax return. Even though the error was in THEIR favor, the IRS notified me. I was surprised and grateful, but this just demonstrates that since they are going to double-check my 1040, there was really NO reason for me to waste my time in the first place! >:-\

Re:Apps for Linux desktop (3, Informative)

BCW2 (168187) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433783)

I have asked Intuit to port Turbo Tax to Linux every year for the last three. The first time they emailed me and said thy were looking into it. I have been ignored the last 2 times. I don't expect a response this year either. When someone come out with something similar for Linux, Intuit will never get another dime from me.
Quasar from Linux Canada is nice accounting software. It can be used as personal for 30 bucks or upgraded to business far cheaper than any Win product I've heard of. Not free but useful and modestly priced.

Re:Apps for Linux desktop (1)

Mr. Piddle (567882) | more than 10 years ago | (#8434519)


I would estimate, from purely a user's perspective, that TurboTax and Quicken are in such deep Win32 doo-doo that Wine would probably be the only option for a port. They would probably have to do a re-write to make a native port to UNIX/Linux-land.

Re:Apps for Linux desktop (2, Informative)

Pushnell (204514) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433787)

You're absolutely right in that the "personal taxes" category for linux software is very vacant. However, while not quite geared to the home user, there are quite a few high-end financial app suites targeted at the real bean-counters. One I recently ran across is OSAS [osas.com] .

When you buy the software you get the source, and they do allow customizations & modifications to the source as well, just no releasing of the code to the public. [note: this is all to the best of my understanding. If someone out there knows more about this app, please correct me.]

As to your other concerns:
Kazaa: There are several re-implementations of the Kazaa client for linux. I've also heard that you can run the real thing under WINE.
Real Player: Click Here [real.com] . Nuff said.
ICQ/AIM: Gaim.

Re:Apps for Linux desktop (3, Informative)

ArsonSmith (13997) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433799)

Tax software. Is there a good tax package for Linux, allowing those millions of accountants, small business owners and middle-class Joe's like you and me file their taxes?

www.turbotax.com online. I've been using it for years now.

Re:Apps for Linux desktop (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433809)

Anti-virus is not necessary for a standard Linux box, unless it's sharing files with Windows machines via Samba or routing e-mail sent from Windows machines. For a firewall, iptables is default on all distros these days and that takes care of inbound traffic. The point of an outbound firewall is due to the prevalence of viruses and spyware on Windows, which, again, isn't a problem on Linux. I'd agree that outbound firewalling is cool and nice to have, but it just isn't urgent like it is on Windows.

As for "What's the Linux equivalent of RealPlayer?", you nearly made my head explode. That's like "What's the Linux equivalent of Acrobat Reader or the Flash plugin". Ack. RealPlayer for Linux *exists*. Yes, it's crap, but if you want an equivalent to the Windows crapware, there's Linux crapware from the same source. Please note that development releases of Helix Player for Linux seem to have already surpassed RealPlayer--as in, they're actually pretty good, and will probably be very good when finished (both the Linux and Windows version).

Some would say OpenOffice is equivalent to MS Office. Some would not. This is all irrelevant because MS Office works GREAT on Linux via Wine, or Crossover Office if you don't feel like doing the work.

I agree with you about the tax software though. There's clearly a need for a tax app on Linux, native or emulated. (yes, Wine is not an emulator wah wah wah)

Re:Apps for Linux desktop (5, Funny)

Dark Lord Seth (584963) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433891)

Out of free (of charge) software that is getting huge market share of desktop, what would the Linux equivalent of:

- Real Player

Ooo! I know!

#!/bin/sh
# RealPlayerOne, Linux port ( Dark Lord Seth, 01-03-2004 )

dd if=/dev/random of=~/realplayer.tmp bs=1024 count=1024
dd if=/dev/random of=~/tmp/realplayer.core bs=1024 count=1024
dd if=/dev/random of=/var/real/buffer bs=1024 count=10240

echo "Buffering...\n\n"
sleep 10

echo "Buffering...\n\n"
sleep 10

echo "Buffering...\n\n"
sleep 10

echo "Connection reset by peer."

#rm ~/realplayer.tmp
#rm ~/tmp/realplayer.core
#rm /var/real/buffer

Re:Apps for Linux desktop (1)

bwalling (195998) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433946)

Tax software. Is there a good tax package for Linux, allowing those millions of accountants, small business owners and middle-class Joe's like you and me file their taxes?

I've used TurboTax for several years now, and I haven't installed it once. I just use their web version. Used to be cheaper, but now the price is the same.

Re:Apps for Linux desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8434338)

Linux equivelents for
Kazaa = Kazaa. (Though edonkey is better)
Realplayer = Realplayer. (Though you can also use mplayer if you like).

Baby steps please! (5, Insightful)

BCW2 (168187) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433688)

A step at a time, first networks, then the desktop. The domination by Linux will not happen overnight. How long did it take M$ to get where it is? Look at where they are now, with all the mistakes(Win 3.0, 95, Me, Bob), that get repeated, over and over and ...... and they are still the biggest gorilla on the planet. Don't think the Linux world won't make a few, but we are (hopefully) smarter and have learned from the mistakes of others and won't repeat them.

Re:Baby steps please! (1)

Vancorps (746090) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433851)

Let's ask a different question. What has been done first on the linux platform? All of the network services implemented came after another platform introduced them and made them popular. When their is a Linux based service that is unique that actually requires someone to install and configure a Linux server then you will see a change. In the meantime you're right for the most part. The mistakes are remade because of the above policy of acting second not first.

Whether that's good or bad I leave to you. I think it works but it will keep any Linux from becoming the 800lbs gorilla like Microsoft.

Re:Baby steps please! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8434625)

A step at a time, first networks, then the desktop. The domination by Linux will not happen overnight.

One thing I think Linux needs is trusted locations to distribute BINARIES for their products. I have come across this problem numerous times, where I am trying to compile a program, and it seems like everytime I go to compile, it says I need this or that. 2 hours later, I've downloaded 5 other small programs and 2 or 3 of *THOSE* require me to compile them. I'm not saying that having the ability to compile a program isnt nice (or should be done away with), but I think that most programs that people distribute for linux should come with pre-compiled binaries. Most users don't want or have the time to spend trying to compile a program (especially when they don't even know programming languages in the first place). Granted, a couple of these programs I was working with came from small projects, so I know its hard to get a "trusted source". But with having the tools such as huge websites like sourceforge.net, there should be no reason why trusted binaries should be available.

I think once something like this is done, huge steps can be taken to get Linux to the masses, as most people don't want to compile it themselves - they just want it to work. If licensing issues keep something like this from becoming a reality, then one must start to consider if its the license thats keeping Linux from becoming "mainstream".

Dude, they are going to make *so* much money (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433745)

Man, they'll be able to sell linux to everyone. Then an hour later, they can come back and sell it again!

Look forward to that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433759)

Working as well as TurboLinux did.

It's 2004... (5, Interesting)

TeaEarlGreyHot (756865) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433805)

Do you know where your Linux desktop is?

The headline to this story should read "what took so long?" I consider the fact that Linux HASN'T made a major entry into the enterprise OR consumer desktop to be a MAJOR failing. Linux should, by now, be on 15-20% of desktops. What's the problem? Consider:

-Hardware isn't a problem. Linux pretty much supports just as much hardware as Windows does. And, if you are a desktop vendor, it really isn't a problem to write your own drivers.
-Applications aren't a problem. Linux has perfectly functional word processors, spreadsheets, web browsers, instant messengers, and email/calendar/groupware. Plus, they're free!
-File exchange isn't a problem. Any major file format that Windows/Mac users read/write and be read/written in Linux.
-With the proliferation of sub-$500 computers, Windows and 3rd party software becomes a major portion of the price tag. Linux makes economic sense here.

And this has been the case for AT LEAST FOUR YEARS! I think by now we have to start asking hard questions about who's to blame for this. I can think of a few. I would start with the desktop environments, KDE and GNOME. They continue to present an environment that is far too complicated for the computer novice, and fail to cover up the weirdness of X. I would also blame the distributions, who could have, in turn, covered up the weirdness of KDE and GNOME. Application install/uninstall is still a nightmare for users who are skiddish of a command line. I should be able to download a program installer, open up a file browser and browse to where I put it, double click to do a graphical installation, and then find the program in an add/remove programs system contol, and click delete to get rid of it.

Finally, I blame the elitism of the Linux community, who continue to regard the OS as belonging to computing guru, and would much rather bring the user to Linux than Linux to the user. Making easy tasks easy does not "dumb down" Linux.

Sorry, mod me down if you want, but every so often I feel the need to rant about this. It's 2004, and there should be thousands of grandmas out there emailing and IMing on Linux. The fact that there aren't is a really sad thing.

Re:It's 2004... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433929)

Your point is not only true, but it's basically why I have NOT switched to Linux. I want to use my computer, not learn how it works.

And since I can't take it from Windoze anymore, I only have one option.

Apple, where's my damn headless eMac/iMac G5 already? I'm ready to buy!

Re:It's 2004... (5, Informative)

Welsh Dwarf (743630) | more than 10 years ago | (#8434098)

Where have you been these last 2 years?
To refute your posts, I will use examples from Mandrake 9.2 (some say there is a lot better, but it's always worked for my computer illiterate friends).

KDE? weird? I, and none of the above mentioned friends, have any trouble or any quirks. A lot of my friends actually appreciate stuff like the audio cd device that allows you to rip like you'd copy, and if there were a few bugs in 3.1.4, try out 3.2, the formula spell checker is bliss, no slashdotter should be without!!!

Application install/uninstall. hummmm, what's so hard about going to configuration, uninstall-software, and typing in what your program does to find it and remove it? got an rpm? just double click, enter root password and your done. One point I will admit defeat on though is package maintainers refusal to put icons in the menus though, which is a general UI sin in this day and age.

As for the Linux community elitisme, I'll accept that alt.os.linux.slackware is no place to ask how to mount, but OTOH alt.os.linux.mandrake is fine for newbe's, and really helpfull in general. Otherwise there's the mandrake forums.

Just to get the facts streight

David

Re:It's 2004... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8434211)

Most people don't buy quality products, period. They don't buy quality cars, quality clothes, quality groceries, etc. etc. etc.

Why? Mostly willful ignorance. I know a bunch of people who bought Dodge Neons late in the game despite the fact the Lemon Aid guide has been panning them for years. Guess what happened? The cars were always in the shop, I had to give a boost to another one, and another person resold their Neon pretty quickly. That's a BIG purchase.

Look in the grocery baskets at the grocery store. See what people are buying. It's mostly crap and not always cheaper crap.

Look at walmart. Can you find decent quality footwear there? Try putting on a pair of cheap shoes and you can see why so many people who shop there look so fat. Walking is painful. I bought a good pair of leather shoes years ago and had them resoled and quality inserts put in them. They've saved me money over the years and they are incredibly comfortable.

Why should anyone care who is using Linux? The Toyota Camry has one of the lowest driver death ratings per million of cars out there... but plenty of people buy the worst cars (Cavalier, Neon, and surprisingly, SUV's and cheap pickups! etc.)

I use Linux on two systems and my wife uses it on one system. I'm not even going to broach the topic with my parents. My brother has an iBook (I got a faster used Thinkpad and threw Linux on it and saved a lot and I don't have any weird screen problems with white dots like he and so many other iBook people have)

People don't buy based on quality or safety. When I bought a whitebox system from a local retailer my father looked cross and said... "Why didn't you buy a Dell?" and I said, "Why the hell would I?" Considering he knows nothing about computers but he watches a lot of tv, where do you suppose he got that idea? Maybe if IBM and Novell want to advertise Linux, that'll probably do the most good.

It's not the elitism of the "linux community" and how dare you lump everyone who uses Linux in the same label. That's like saying all blacks are the same in a community and all Pakistanis are the same. Geez. Try visiting forums.gentoo.org and you'll see how helpful people are on a daily basis even with the most basic and repeated questions.

Clarifying re: "Linux community" (1)

TeaEarlGreyHot (756865) | more than 10 years ago | (#8434430)

I'm not talking about people who use Linux, or even people who evangelize Linux. I'm in both of those categories. I'm talking about the people who develop and maintain Linux and the software that Linux is dependent on. From the Kernel team to the major distributers to the desktop environments, down to the foot soldier coders, Linux has always been "by code-monks, for gurus." The culture has always been one that values tinkering with the guts of a system over a pleasant user experience.

I will admit I know sod-all about what makes for a good user experience in an OS desktop. I have no trouble at all with Linux, and can't comprehend why it's so much of a pain for ordinary folks. But I do know that I can sit an uninitiated down at a Windows machine and get him doing basic tasks quickly, whereas they are lost in front of any Linux setup I've tried.

That shouldn't happen.

Re:It's 2004... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8434228)

You certainly bring up some valid concerns or areas where Free Software can improve. However, you completely ignore the biggest reason more people are not using Linux. The Microsoft monopoly and people's adversion to change.

Microsoft is a convicted, largely unregulated monopoly. They use this power to force computer makers to put Windows on every system they ship. Then, when "grandma" or "Joe Average" buys the computer, they have no desire to replace what came on it with something else. This perpetuates the Micorsoft empire and will be VERY difficult for Linux to break.

I have moved my family to Linux. They all love KDE, from my non-tech wife down to my 6 year-old. I have helped others make an informed choice as to what OS they want to use and few have any problems using Free Software on a day to day basis.

It's just that most people don't know they have a choice and Microsoft does the best it can to make sure they don't find out.

Re:It's 2004... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8434245)

The headline to this story should read "what took so long?" I consider the fact that Linux HASN'T made a major entry into the enterprise OR consumer desktop to be a MAJOR failing. Linux should, by now, be on 15-20% of desktops. What's the problem?

Whether or not it is a failing depends on what exactly your goals are.

Finally, I blame the elitism of the Linux community, who continue to regard the OS as belonging to computing guru, and would much rather bring the user to Linux than Linux to the user.

I can't speak for anyone else, but why on earth should I care what other people do with their computers?

Re:It's 2004... (3, Insightful)

TeaEarlGreyHot (756865) | more than 10 years ago | (#8434527)

Why should you care what other people do with their computers? When Microsoft rolls DRM into the OS, and marries the Windows to the BIOS, and congress decrees that all non-DRM-compliant computers are illegal "circumvention devices," then you will care very much that Linux failed to create a popular, open platform to prevent this from happening, even though the Linux development community was INCHES away from making it possible. I have no problem with closed source software, but platforms and standards should remain open. Open standards are what made the Internet possible. They are what made the PC boom possible. And, if you care about open platforms and standards, then you should care about how many people use Linux.

Re:It's 2004... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8434308)

Now that commercial companies are starting to take over control of Linux, shit is going to get fixed fast.

When it comes to chosing between getting a working product out the door or fucking around with amateur shit like themes, it clear where the business world is going to take Linux quickly.

Say bye bye to retards like Gnome's Miguel and hello to Linux as a commerical product.

Re:It's 2004... (2, Funny)

110010001000 (697113) | more than 10 years ago | (#8434395)

-Hardware isn't a problem.
hee hee.
-Applications aren't a problem.
HAHA.
-File exchange isn't a problem. Any major file format that Windows/Mac users read/write and be read/written in Linux.
Oh my. Good one.
-With the proliferation of sub-$500 computers, Windows and 3rd party software becomes a major portion of the price tag. Linux makes economic sense here.
Yes! I wonder why everyone doesn't use it given all the advantages you stated above.

Could it be because you are caught in a reality distortion field?

Home also... (2, Insightful)

moberry (756963) | more than 10 years ago | (#8433867)

Employees of these company's would also be prone to use linux at there own homes, because they use it at work. This is like fresh university students using unix at the work place, because they used it in college.

NfagOrz (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#8433869)

OF USER BASE FOR for election, I it just 0wnz.', halt. Even Emacs OpenBSD. How many the future of the Over 7o yet another A full-time GNAA

going down (1, Funny)

aled (228417) | more than 10 years ago | (#8434062)

"companies that have embraced Linux and are going down that path"

Bad choice of words? :-)
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