Dell's New Linux Blog 317
comforteagle writes "I've just written up an interesting find: Linux engineers at Dell have started their own Linux site and weblog about Linux at Dell. From the announcement: "Welcome to the Dell Linux Community Web. This site is dedicated to providing any information that may be useful regarding your usage of Linux on your Dell equipment. While Dell primarily works with and officially supports Red Hat Linux, many of our customers choose to run other distributions." And perhaps more importantly it appears that the new site and weblog is run and maintained by the engineers themselves. It certainly has that 'made with vi' look." And kudyadi points to this PC Magazine interview with Michael Dell, in which Dell talks "about Dell's expanding product line, the company's late entrance into the Media Center space, and where the PC giant and the industry go from here." He touches on Linux just a bit, too.
Also toshiba has one (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Also toshiba has one (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Also toshiba has one (Score:5, Funny)
Micro$oft is dead. (Score:5, Insightful)
Six years ago, if you put your head to the ground, you could hear a rumble.
The largest seller of corporate desktops openly embracing and encouraging Linux and free software is about as subtle as a passing freight train. So much for the careful dance Dell was supposed to do to avoid the wrath of Microsoft. Do you think for one instant that Dell wants Microsoft's DRM future to happen and leave them even more in Microsoft's grip? No one does and they are all breaking free. Everyone will follow Dells lead and it's going to go everywhere, the desktop, portables the works.
This leaves Microsoft with very little. With the acceptance of an alternate platform, Microsoft's hardware and software incompatibility extortion is over. As that alternate platform is technically superior, there is little reason to shell out big bucks for legacy software. Why would any company trust it's record keeping to Microsoft formats when free alternatives have widespread comercial support? There is competition in the future and everyone knows it. Standardizing into the upgrade cycle will soon be a thing of the past. Microsoft will compete by improving their code and EULAs or die. Let's see how long it takes them to figure out that their current business model is dead.
Re:Micro$oft is dead. (Score:3, Insightful)
The Microsoft we see in 10 years may be very different from the Microsoft we see today, but it will still be around.
Four quarters to zero. (Score:3, Interesting)
doh, wrong link. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Micro$oft is dead. (Score:3, Insightful)
Well isn't that the point?
Don't be so down on free software. (Score:3, Insightful)
For example, the kernel interface for drivers is just the pits. I mean, you either have to have open source drivers to build for your kernel release, or your equipment manufacturer has to have a binary for every possible kernel version and build!
This is true in the windoze world too. Your old 3.1 drivers won't work with NT, might work with 95, won't work with ME or XP. In the free world, drivers get compiled for everything and packaged by the distro maker or by yourself.
Now that the M$ extortion is over, more hardware makers are going to be releasing free drivers. Those that won't sucked anyway and already left you high and dry. That's not the fault of kernel developers. I've been there with a wireless card that promissed "Linux support" but came with a closed binary that was compiled with a specific Red Hat compiler for a specific kernel. It sucked, but that was the card maker's fault. They should have simply released their code GPL and let everyone mirror it. If they were under restraint from a chipmaker, then the chipmaker sucked. The kernel's system of insmod and rmmod is way better than any Windoze junk that makes you reboot for simply looking at it! Add to that Windoze's mindless need for a specific driver for each and every device, even if they have the same damn chipset and are essentially identical. Free software's drivers that easily handle hardware from donzens of branders shows just how needlessly clumsy the Windoze way is.
Linux has a very inconsistent UI, so that tech support for "Linux" is very difficult. For example, somebody can't "get online". Are you running Lindows? Mandrake? Red Hat? Suse? Slackware? Gentoo? KDE? Gnome? IceWM? Which version of each? What kernel build do you have installed?
Once again, the same pain works in the windoze world, despite the seemingly limited choice. Do you know the differences between all the versions of AOL and the hardware requirements with respect to each version of windoze, for example? I know some of them - but each time I have to figure the damn thing out for the user. It's a job each service provider should be doing.
It is easier to fix free software problems. Besides the fact that there are fewer problems to begin with, the remote tools superior - they work better.
Try walking somebody through setting up email over the phone sometime. And, sorry, if you disagree with me on this point, it's probably because you haven't done it with a Linux setup you didn't install yourself in the first place.
Sure, you have to know your set up. I think I pulled out a suitably horrible example of how bad this is in the Windoze world. I'd far rather help someone set up Mozilla, Kmail, Balsa or even evolution than AOL or M$N. The weird settings the weird ISPs themselves have are the source of half of those problems. How those things get translated onto the half dozen Windoze platforms is a true nightmare. When you add the insecurity complication into the equation, 75% of the time, the user has a hosed system that needs to be wiped and reloaded. This is not the case in the free software world where settings are made and stay put.
Think about how much less trouble you have with that Red Hat system than your clients have with their Windoze boxes. Tech support is broken windows, day in, day out. It is precisely this kind of mindless repeated Microsoft support that convinces me that EVERYONE would be better off with free and open software. A Mac would be better and it's hardly free! A really free system offers quality, reliability, flexiblity and freedom from lock-in.
In any case, I agree with you when you say that Windoze is doomed.
Interesting (Score:5, Interesting)
For instance I would of bought a Dell laptop in a heartbeat if I knew dell supported it and offered a Windows-less or linux OS pre-installed.
I just didn't want to pay the "mircosoft tax".
So I just got a slightly used gateway from Ebay instead.
Desktops I don't care so much about since I build my own computers, but laptops and such are only aviable from manufacturers and linux support is a big plus.
Re:Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
This is really focused on the enterprise effort (e.g. those who have enormous budgets and would like to make servers cost a lot less). The only possible consumer device that will come out of Dell with linux is a media center device. This is because users don't generally need to muck around with the OS in those set top devices. Servers are also immune from constant tinkering or at least should be.
Re:Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
The only problem is lack of driver support. I wonder if Dell doing this would encourage companies to provide at least binary only drivers.
Re:Interesting (Score:2, Interesting)
Oh, I don't know abou that... Over half the machine in any hypermarket I walk into are pre-loaded with Linux, and one manufacturer, Liberta, even has their own branded version, which now stands at version 1.2 and comes with Pladao, the Thai localized version of OO.o. It has been this way for almost two years.
Consumer level Linux is happening, just not in the places you are looking. Dan
Re:Interesting (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't care if they support* Linux or not. Just give me the laptop without the Microsoft tax and I'll do the rest.
* By support I mean that if I have a problem with Linux I don't care if they have people around to help me with my problem. But if you meant that they actually do a little bit of research to make sure the hardware that goes into the laptop works with Linux, then well yeah
In the latter case, here are a couple of places I've found that do just that. Unfortunately their prices can't match Dell's, but at least you know that all of your hardware is going to work with Linux. (or so they claim)
laclinux.com [laclinux.com]
linuxcertified.com [linuxcertified.com]
[ot] look at powernotebooks.com (Score:2, Informative)
they claim to sell alot of the same laptops as the major vendors less the ms tax. i read somewhere on their site that they buy the laptops from the same place as dell or gateway. the major vendors basically stick their logo on them and sell the laptops as their own. they will even preinstall linux [powernotebooks.com], and they have a bulletin board where they answer linux related questions.
since it's not a name brand company, you can check out the reviews at reseller ratings [resellerratings.com].
i guess i should mention that i'm in no way affiliated with this company. i stumbled across them when a friend asked me where he should buy a laptop without windows.
Re:Interesting (Score:2, Offtopic)
I've been stunningly underwhelmed with the general sturdiness of Apple's laptops.
On the up side, Apple laptops had chronic problems for *years* with the port-covering panel breaking off. Apple seems to have fixed this, as the panel is firmly attached on his Mac.
OS X is usable without being incredibly irritating, a la Windows, but it still isn't Linux. You are stuck with a single mouse button trackpad, and you should be aware that purchasing a Mac is more than the initial purchase price -- software and hardware from Apple is pricy and a lot of software that Linux folks take for granted as free are quite expensive packages on the Mac. Finally, the PowerPC isn't what it once was -- the PPC used to be an incredibly cool (thermally cool) processor back in the day, but it's steadily consumed more and more power.
It all depends on what you like in a computer. I would *definitely* use a friend's Apple computer for a while before buying an Apple machine, unless the money really doesn't even measure on your financial radar. You may like the thing. It has plenty of eye candy, a much better UI than Windows, better commercial software support than Linux (well, for typical cubicle-worker stuff), and is fairly straightforward.
While it *does* have a CLI, it lacks the GNU utilities, which is *incredibly* annoying to anyone who has gotten familiar with them. If Solaris or BSD (well, sans GNU utils) drives you nuts with the more limited featureset in the CLI utilities, you are going to be equally irritated with the Mac OS.
If you're aware of what you're getting into, Macs can be a good deal.
Note that, before people get crabby about me bashing Apple, I have a Mac right next to me at the moment, and I've used and coded on Macs for years in the past. I think Apple's done some good stuff, but that people also tend to get an overly rosy view of their products.
Linux/Dell is an expanding platform. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Linux/Dell is an expanding platform. (Score:4, Informative)
This also provides a 3 year window for benchmarking and comparison. As a research institution, I know users will try the Linux platform just for the geek factor. Their feedback will determine whether I continue with Big Iron, Big Iron with Dell hardware redundancy, or Dell with Dell redundancy.
Clever way to get on-side (Score:5, Insightful)
Given that it uses a comments section, it'll probably turn into a useful technical resource as well... Could do with a decent search though
Simon
Re:Clever way to get on-side (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Clever way to get on-side (Score:5, Funny)
Do you not think that the association with fantasy-land would explain a lot?
Simon
Re:Clever way to get on-side (Score:2)
Re:Clever way to get on-side (Score:2)
Zero content? (Score:2, Interesting)
We don't have the time to read blogs or address every silly detail in the same way as you do. We deal with the big picture (like making sure you get your salary next month) and delegate the details for you to work them out.
When we want feedback from you we want it on a couple of slides. We don't want to know how you tweaked your code to get 1% performance increase. We want to know how we're progressing and if there are any show-stopping problems.
Web pages you scorn don't have "zero content". It's just information us managers need.
Re:Zero content? (Score:3, Insightful)
All true and understood, but the real problem is when websites don't contain anything else than marketing fluff. ;-)
Just imagine the Oracle website without OTN. Or Microsoft without KB and MSDN. I mean, yes, you could make a buying-decision based on the "fluff" of the corporate pages, but that wouldn't help anybody to actually run the product - or give some of your subordinates a chance to look at it and make sure it actually fits your business needs and give you your beloved Go/No-Go answer
That's the real problem most people have with websites with "zero content".
Rainer
Re:Zero content? (Score:2)
Okay. This raises the question of why, if the primary task of a manger is to simply take in input and regurgitate an obvious yes or no based on some simply risk and profit analysis that *anyone* could do, we need more than one manager per twenty engineers.
I just don't see a hell of a lot of functionality provided by most managers, aside from possibly information hiding -- which you could argue really is a useful service.
That doesn't mean that managers are unnecessary (collecting and summarizing information and handing it up the chain *is* a necessary task), just that there are a lot more of them than there should be.
Re:Zero content? (Score:2)
In those meetings the decisions won't be made based on technical reasons, and even if there is any tech stuff involved, your manager would know it (coz you told him) and if it gets more detailed than that, the rest wouldn't know anyway, plus they're probably discussing the wrong thing in the wrong meeting.
Think OSI 7 layers. Even if you don't need all 7 layers, you still need some layers once you get a big enough organisation.
Sure there's going to be some latency and inefficiency, but if you want to get reduce em all, then you need one of those super-CEOs.
Re:Zero content? (Score:2)
A good manager with reasonable work loads can handle 20+ people. A good one with a hellish work load and/or pushy upper manager will handle vastly fewer people effectively.
Tip for managers: Don't ask the same damn question of 20 people constantly...sure, check the validity of your info once in a while, but not on every friggen question! Trust people, take a deep breath, and when that trust is broken then work around the 'dammage'.
Second tip: Listen to your techs, and don't impose a 'solution'. This does not mean take everything they say as gold, it does mean don't find someone to validate a decision you've already made, LISTEN FIRST!
Re:Zero content? (Score:2)
Not all places organize like that. My department has one real management person (who is actually very sharp about the technical capabilities of our products), with three direct reports acting as team leads, those team leads have 30 programmers, 8 testing people, an architect and a program manager.
In my organization the manager does more than make a simple yes or no decision based on what he is spoon fed by underlings - he has to be aware of the regulatory environment, company strategy, employee capabilities, budget, and all manner of other factors... and he hates zero content BS because it obscures rather than simplifies.
That doesn't mean that managers are unnecessary (collecting and summarizing information and handing it up the chain *is* a necessary task), just that there are a lot more of them than there should be.
Keeping VPs away from programmers is important because I know very few programmers who can give reasonable dates, especially in the face of the kind of power games that VPs tend to play. :)
Re:Zero content? (Score:3, Funny)
Was he escorted out in a Star Trek style ritual with spooky chanting, tons of mist and a portentous speech about the Outlander or did you all just poke him with a stick?
Re:Clever way to get on-side (Score:2)
"zero-content" stuff may contain zero technical content, but not everyone wants the deep technical content. They want to know how our software will help their business. The "pointy-eared bosses" find the content aimed at geeks quite useless.
Re:Clever way to get on-side (Score:3, Insightful)
So it is not that technical people hate any web page that isn't written in technobabble - it's that we prefer substance over style. Those of us who have been in the industry for more than a couple years have a mistrust of any information that is presented in too slick a manner, because it is often specious, hysterically repeats one or two dubious facts, or is omptimistic conjecture regarding the real world behaviour of the system in question.
Re:Clever way to get on-side (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem is that I've run into an inordinate number of utterly incompetent corporate IT people who throw out lines that read *exactly* like the ones that you just wrote, and are utterly wrong. That doesn't necessarily reflect on your own abilities, but I've found that it's really amazing how often giving people non-sanitized communications with honest and in-depth information seems to make them much happier.
At one point, I thought that corporatespeak, the sort of truly zero-content material that appears on the websites of holding companies, groups of companies, and most investment-related firms was professional and respected by people reading it. Then I discovered that no, it's generally made fun of among everyone. Nobody, not even the PHBs, are in the least intrigued by a webpage that says that a company can promote "knowledge management producing synergy" or similar.
I just read Stephenson's "In the Beginning was the Command Line", and have decided that he has an excellent point. Users are *tired* of being fed sanitized, contentless information telling them that the product they have purchased is working fine and has no problems, that they have an "issue", not a "bug", and that the company is glad to continue to provide valuable and useful services to the customer. They don't want to see more stock business clipart of mindlessly grinning models sitting in front of keyboards wearing a telephone headset.
Note that Dell is pretty to-the-point for a company, probably because their primary interface to customers is through their website and if they dick around too much, they lose customers.
Here's a random exerpt [techieindex.com] from one of those content-free pages:
Excerpts from an exclusive interview with Techieindex
1. How is Business Objects planning to focus on the Global 2000 companies and other packaged application software vendors who have a proactive strategy to reach customers, prospects, partners, and employees using the Internet especially in a global economy that has not yet shown signs of picking up from the slump it has been in for the past two years?
Global 2000 leaders understand that they can use information and the Internet to service customers better, drive cost out of the business and improve their business performance and velocity. This is the fundamental value proposition of Business Intelligence software - helping organizations of all sizes to more effectively track, understand and manage their business. Business Objects will continue to add capability to our best-of-breed BI stack, including the next major release of our product later this year, and help our global customer base of more than 17,000, utilize enterprise BI to see rapid business return.
This sort of crap doesn't actually appeal to *anyone*.
Blog? (Score:3)
Dell Linux Engineering (Score:5, Interesting)
In such big companys there are often rules how to communicate with customers and they have common ways ("old fashioned") stuff like newsletters, discussion boards, press releases. If they now allow them to setup their own way this sounds like a benefit to the customer. Maybe they start a IRC Server next or publish their own set of linux patches (for dell specific needs).
BTW I would not buy a Dell labtop again my Inspiron is so poorly processed, if you press on the left side, it jiggles at the other....
Re:Dell Linux Engineering (Score:5, Funny)
You spend a lot time on e-bay [slashdot.org], now don't you?-)
Re:Dell Linux Engineering (Score:2)
Re:Dell Linux Engineering (Score:2)
Hopefully they change things at Dell (Score:5, Informative)
The lack of official support for linux on the Dell Desktop and Laptop Hardware has been one of the biggest impediments to rolling out a Linux User Machine in our enterprise.
While many of the development machines and older kit are fully integrated with the Linux OS, the new and less expensive kit is a complete pain to get to work.
One example is the Inspiron 1100 which has a massive problem with the video BIOS and Linux and takes a lot of work to get it right.
If Dell makes moves in the direction of support linux in the desktop, it can only help sales. I would definitely make Linux Desktop Support a part of a purchasing decision.
Re:Hopefully they change things at Dell (Score:3, Interesting)
That is, until MS decides to nip Linux in the bud and add a clause to the contract that no company which resells Windows OEM may support or contribute to Linux. Remember, MS thinks that we are a viable threat now, and they have been known to do such things... hence the DOJ lawsuits. Speaking of which, they won't mind the cost of being sued again, since it's likely going to be another slap on the wrist.
Re:Hopefully they change things at Dell (Score:3, Interesting)
I am wondering why the Anti-Trust people did not look at this aspect of Microsoft activities rather than the link between IE and the OS.
What is the answer to this? I would be deploying Linux on Windows licensed kit since the OS expense is already part of the budget. Also I would not like to have the Software Nazi's show and audit us with more desktops than Microsoft OS Licenses.
The reason for deploying Linux on the desktop is not for price reasons but stability and lowering support load. Therefore, the Microsoft licenses will be bought, but it woiuld still be good to have hardware support for the Linux OS on Dell desktops.
Re:Hopefully they change things at Dell (Score:2)
Re:Hopefully they change things at Dell (Score:3, Insightful)
Easy. Unapproved purchases by the marketing department that had to be integrated.
Inspirons are cheap, nasty and non-standard. They can have up to four different NIC's in them, three different makes of video card and the list goes on. It has made imaging a nightmare and taught the idiots in marketing a lesson. The average turn-around for laptop image is a day - for the boys in marketing it is four days. Now they are looking at getting rid of them despite them being a couple months old. This time they came to me for standard kit specs. At least they are learning.
That is why I was looking at Suse and YAST2 for deployment. Unfortunately, the video bios problem killed it.
Where the f*** is IBM!?! (Score:4, Interesting)
And our big linux brother IBM? Nada. At least where I live (europe) the official statement is and has been since 1999: IBM only supports Windows on these systems.
There are good internet resources and mailing-lists, *but* the only way to get there is google (no link at ibm.com, etc.)
IBM is cheating on us.
Re:Where the f*** is IBM!?! (Score:5, Informative)
For example, try this:
Linux for IBM personal systems [ibm.com]
Re:Where the f*** is IBM!?! (Score:4, Informative)
1. Setting up the OS.
2. Downloading and recompiling appropriate kernel modules.
3. Setting up monitoring systems.
4. Setting up networking and hostnames.
5. Setting up some services.
Your problem is not IBM, it's the local vendor company who says they are "IBM".
Re:Where the f*** is IBM!?! (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Where the f*** is IBM!?! (Score:2)
They had Linux for Thinkpads (Score:2)
Re:Where the f*** is IBM!?! (Score:4, Informative)
http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/MIGR-48 NT8D.html
It took me not about 3 clicks from the IBM frontpage to get there. The site mentioned above includes some articles about installing RH Linux on ThinkPads and configuring stuff like Bluetooth. I think that's pretty neat and there are also vendors who sell Thinkpads with Linux preinstalled.But don't call Dell they're busy right now! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:But don't call Dell they're busy right now! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:But don't call Dell they're busy right now! (Score:4, Informative)
Vi look works (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus who says you cant created good webpages with nothing except a text editor of your choice?
Re:Vi look works (Score:2)
Maybe that's just me being a skeptic.
Re:Vi look works (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Vi look works (Score:2)
My favorite quote (Score:5, Funny)
MD: I went over to a friend's house the other day. He was having problems with his computer and he asked me to look at it, and I realized he had Windows Me and it's like, oh no--that's your first problem.
Re:My favorite quote (Score:5, Funny)
They should call Dell in Sweden (Score:5, Informative)
I was looking for a new computer a couple of months ago. Some of the Dell laptop deals looked pretty good. I called them and said "I'm interested in that model. Is it possible to get it with another operating system, say Linux, installed?"
Dell: "No, I'm afraid that is not possible."
Me: "Would it be possible to get it with a blank hard drive then?"
Dell: "No, I'm sorry, we have a deal with Microsoft. You have the choice between Windows XP home or Pro, that's basically it. You know, you could always reformat the harddrive and install Linux yourself if that is what you want."
Me: "So you will not sell me a computer unless it has Windows on it?"
Dell: "I'm afraid so."
I said thanks but no thanks and hung up. Even if Dell gets Windows at a huge discount, I don't want to pay for software I'm not going to use. Nor do I want to add to Microsoft's false sales statistics.
This is all a very familiar story to all Slashdot regulars I'm sure. I do hope the major PC sellers are starting to come around though.
Re:They should call Dell in Sweden (Score:5, Informative)
You're looking at it from the wrong perspective... (Score:3, Interesting)
Dell offer support on all their kit, it's part of the sales procedure. So while you might want Linux on your laptop, it opens them up to a boatload of questions and issues regarding support.
How does a company offer support on a PC sold with a blank drive?
Sure, you could do hardware only, but ascertaining what the problem is usually means ruling out the software/drivers first. If you send your laptop back with a faulty video card, how would they test it and get it back to you?
What I'm saying is that it's all well and good to moan about them not selling you a blank drive laptop, but from their point of view, it's half a product. Dell sell and support laptops with a Windows operating system, and until they can see the market swinging towards a point where a Linux support team is cost-effective and - to be blunt - needed, they aren't going to ship you anything but a Windows laptop.
Incidentally, it's the same with Apple. Have you tried buying an Apple without an OS? You can't, but no-one ever moans about Apple tax...
Re:You're looking at it from the wrong perspective (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You're looking at it from the wrong perspective (Score:5, Informative)
You're still right, though - while they sell YDL pre-installed, apparently Mac OS is also still installed and you can dual-boot.
Re:You're looking at it from the wrong perspective (Score:3, Funny)
Re:They should call Dell in Sweden (Score:2)
They even sell linux with them on the web, although the swedish pages haven't got RHEL 3 yet, just 2.1, but you can call them and you'll get 3.0. No "MS tax" there.
Desktops, at least some of them also seem well supported, they replaced a batch of emu10k1x-based sblive cards for regular emu10k1 ones about a year ago when the "x" version first turned up.
/August.
Re:They should call Dell in Sweden (Score:2)
Same here. But I did get a (useless) response.
> Problem Description:
I tried to purchase the Inspiron 5100 Notebook online but I noticed that when I selected the option to customize that I was not able to remove Windows XP from the selection. As a long time user of "alternative" Operating Systems (Linux, FreeBSD, and otherwise), I have no desire to pay for an Operating System that I have no intent on using.
>
>
Dear Sir,
Thank you for choosing Dell Online Customer Care.
I apologize for any inconvenience this matter may have caused.
Unfortunately, we are unable to assist you with your request. You will need to contact the appropriate department for additional information regarding your request.
Online Sales Center at 1-800-915-3355 ext 62032 or via e-mail at:
it's great to see ! (Score:5, Insightful)
Dell engineers have submitted a kernel patch which allows Linux to determine which disk the BIOS believes is the system boot disk. Without this patch, Linux must guess which disk BIOS believes is the boot disk, which is pretty easy in a simple system configuration, but impossible in a system with multiple disks attached to multiple controllers.
Yep. It's great to see people from companies like Intel,IBM, SGI, HP, Dell all contributing [kernel.org].
I would imagine that these guys *really* want linux to succeed so they can stopping sucking up to redmond.
[/zealotry]
Microsoft will love this (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Microsoft will love this (Score:3, Funny)
DELL, Linux, RAID and all that (Score:4, Interesting)
I asked DELL support about a Linux-related problem and they told me they don't support Linux. They said my laptop was shipped with Windows 2000, so they can't be bothered. While this is certainly true, it's not MY fault that they didn't ship Linux in 2001 when I bought it.
I've also contacted them about RAID systems, and they corporate sales folks I had contact with didn't really know what they were talking about, so I had to get in touch with a RedHat developer to answer my question (which he instantly did).
Maybe here's a good way to make money for distro companies: try get a service contract with hardware vendors like DELL, who haven't got enough inhouse expertise (at support level).
I do hope this engineering effort is part of a wider wave in the company.
Let's not forget Dell's contempt for desktop Linux (Score:4, Informative)
When Dell stops this [cypherpunks.ca] bullshit, and offers a windows delete credit across their entire product line (without invalidating warranties), then you will finally know that Dell isn't paying lip service to Linux anymore (and pocketing the Microsoft tax), and is no longer flagrant in its utter contempt for its customers.
Obligatory SCO reference... (Score:3, Insightful)
Superior Style (Score:4, Insightful)
I can well believe that these have been done by the engineers there and have had little or no input from sales staff, graphic designers, clueless PHBs and other people whose job description boils down to "wears a suit".
My place of employment (a hospital) used a lot of Dell kit and I hope that the rest of the site learns a lot from this bit.
This isn't news. (Score:2, Informative)
This is about Server support, not desktop/laptop (Score:5, Insightful)
Our RFQ specified that Linux support on the laptops they provided was required, and yet they provided a model with the Intel 855GM video chip, which is not released as a driver in recent distros such as Suse 9 and Xandros 2. They are following up with a shipment of an alternate model with a Radeon chipset and this should have no problem working. But if Dell were any different than the other guys with regards to Linux support, we would be seeing recognition of the details in our RFQ saying that hardware support under Linux is required. However on quizzing them on which Linux distro they used to verify it worked with Linux, they would not say anything. Dell=HP=Compaq=Gateway, etc., when it comes to their awareness of Linux and hardware support.
All of the blah blah blah you read about their support for Linux is only on the server line.
Someone at one of these companies has to get off their ass, call up their hardware vendors and DEMAND that all components provided come with Windows AND Linux driver support. If it doesn't, REJECT the component and switch to another hardware vendor. That is the only way the hardware vendors are going to get the message. It isn't a hard concept. It isn't impossible, it just takes a shift in priorities for the hardware vendor which they will be very happy to do once their bottom line is threatened.
Personally, I let Intel directly know that they could be out of sales of 4000+ of their Centrino chipset if they don't release supported drivers under Linux for our timeline.
Just bought a Dell-SuSE server (Score:3, Informative)
Dell must be moving a lot of these no-OS boxes. Their official support has been quite RH-centric, but the new website has a page that directly addresses other distros [dell.com]. SuSE recently announced [suse.com] that Dell was working more closely with them, and SuSE has certified [suse.com] a bunch of Dell machines.
Re:How long will the blog last (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How long will the blog last (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny you should mention the fact that the notion is untrue - I used a Linux operating system once. The following software I had already invested in didn't work with it:
Microsoft Office Student Edition
Dreamweaver
Fireworks
Photoshop
Champi onship Manager worked most of the time after a lot of tweaking, and even then I wouldn't have classed it as reliable.
I think if you actually look at real world figures and software, you'll see that the opnion of "my apps don't run under Linux" is actually quite true.
Actually, they do with a little help. (Score:3, Insightful)
In any case, All the apps you mention run flawlessly in Crossover Office. The retail cost is about $65USD.
Re:How long will the blog last (Score:2)
...or, keep the price the same (or increase it) and add other services or software. If there is any difference on the cost to Dell, they keep it.
That's very speculative... (Score:5, Informative)
Dell's a really open-form company to work for - if you have a great idea, people higher than you are willing to listen and roll with it. Linux is an idea people at Dell will roll with. It might sound crazy, but you really have to look at the way Dell operate as a company; they constantly look for ways to minimize cost for the consumer and maximise profit.
Now, they might have had a rocky road recently with regards to their Linux support, but that's for a number of reasons. Firstly, they didn't have any in-house knowledge of the product. By knowledge I don't mean a guy that uses it at home, I mean a truckload of support guys on phones, people who write drivers, people who can alter the Dell install and build process to accommodate Linux. Secondly, Linux is a moving target; which distro, what GUI, how do you support other configs, etc. etc... These are both big questions for a company that's been churning out identical Windows boxes year in, year out.
So, I'd be interested to think why Dell will be pulling the plug on the blog. As someone who's worked for Dell, I'd pretty much guarantee that if the site's there, it's been approved and has resources attached to it. Those pages are corporate Dell pages, not your average blog knocked out by an engineer... someone's taking time and money to get that up there.
Re:That's very speculative... (Score:4, Funny)
So... how's Bangalore treating you?
Re:That's very speculative... (Score:5, Interesting)
In any case, call center jobs are ten a penny. Any industry - not just tech companies - will eventually ship off the lower end jobs to cheaper countries. I mean seriously, do you know anyone who actually enjoys working in a support call center and wants to make a career of it? Probably not. And most call center support technicians don't know anything about computers anyway, regardless of where they come from. It's like working at McDonalds; people just do it for the cash...
Re:That's very speculative... (Score:2, Interesting)
BTW I agree with the grandpa poster, Dell has nothing against Linux. I have heard it described as being a OS-agnostic company internally. Whatever the customer demographic wants Dell ships. A whole lot of servers are shipped with Linux but unfortunately very few laptops or desktops. It will change though as soon as more customers want Linux. And really I have never seen anybody mention anything anti-linux at dell eiother
Re:That's very speculative... (Score:2)
Besides which, now that the worms are out of the can, so to speak, it's unlikely that any Linux Dell Blog would disappear for long. It might not have a dell.com address, but it would come back in some form. If nothing else, the Dell folks who put it together would become more active in distro-specific forums, in a "not blessed by Dell, but we know what the hell we're talking about" kind of way.
Re:That's very speculative... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:How long will the blog last (Score:5, Insightful)
The blog should last about as long as it takes Michael Dell to take his tongue out of Bill Gate's bunghole.
From the interview:
In other news, I love Texas businessmen. :) Check this out:
Not that I love Dell, or Michael Dell specifically, just that I really like the way Texas businessmen talk about their competition from time to time. There isn't any of this "we're gonna rule the world" crap. Usually just "as much as I can get, and I can get a lot". ;) (Only New Mexicans want to rule the world, and then they move to Seattle and find the drones to do it with :( )
Re:How long will the blog last (Score:2)
From the interview:
As a Mac/FreeBSD user, who understands that people have to use Windows, I have a question. Why do people hate Windows Me specifically? As a product, I realize it's stupid to upgrade to (Win98 + different salad dressing), but if it was just that I don't see why people would hate it so much. From people I've met, it sounds like installing Me is the worth thing you can put on your box; people would rather use 98. Is it just that the removal of real mode DOS causes more problems than it solves or something?
Re:How long will the blog last (Score:2, Informative)
I've had Me installed on a couple of systems for quite a while. Anecdotally, it's never seemed to be any less stable or more problem-prone than Windows 98 was -- which is to say not nearly as good as Windows XP or Windows 2000 but usable enough. (The systems I still have it running on are "light duty" and it's just never been worth the money/trouble to upgrade.) And, no, I can't upgrade them to Linux because they're running applications that aren't available on Linux.
As I recall, Windows Me did have some bugs and such when it first came out which gave it a bad reputation. However, I suspect the biggest issue that a lot of people had with it was that it WAS just Windows 98 with a new paint job--i.e. it wasn't really any better.
Re:How long will the blog last (Score:2)
So I went for it. I never got the machine running properly again until a format and reinstall of Win98. I found that certain aspects of the system changed rather drastically enough that some drivers wouldn't work, some feautres were screwed up like multiple displays, and worst of all, any ability to troubleshoot these problems was essentially removed.
It took about a day and 10 hours for me to give up, but then I went back to Win98SE. I'm sure this is only one account of bad WinME against several accounts of it being fine, but there really was no benefit to using WinME over Win98 and it wasn't exactly some obscure hardware or anything that was in my machine preventing it from working. It just didn't work.
-N
Re:How long will the blog last (Score:5, Informative)
As a Mac/FreeBSD user, who understands that people have to use Windows, I have a question. Why do people hate Windows Me specifically? As a product, I realize it's stupid to upgrade to (Win98 + different salad dressing), but if it was just that I don't see why people would hate it so much. From people I've met, it sounds like installing Me is the worth thing you can put on your box; people would rather use 98. Is it just that the removal of real mode DOS causes more problems than it solves or something?
Hmm, I'll give it a go, but I may not have it quite right.
Windows ME uses the same HAL as Windows 2000, but it's strapped onto an 'upgraded' win9x kernel, which is the old DOS kernel, as far as I know. True to form, Microsoft didn't quite get it right, so the HAL itself is extremely buggy and prone to failure. Since they were still kicking around the old DOS kernel, they still didn't have a decent threading model, and shit still interfered with one another. The 'improvements' wound up being more trouble than they were worth. I guess I would liken it to backporting Linux 2.6's HAL to Linux 2.0 and patching it with a bunch of untested crap from Siberia, passing it through 4 beta-testers who all just clicked on "My Computer" and said "Works Great!", and then releasing it.
From a usability point of view, it's slower than win98 by a long shot, drivers are few and far between (uses Windows 2000's HAL, but can't use Windows 2000 drivers, so ME requires a special set of drivers that don't work in any other version of Windows), and tends to crash if you have too many processes running. It's less stable than win95, more like the old Amiga OS in the 1.2 days without the cute guru meditations.
Actually, I used it for awhile and didn't experience any of this. Not that I loved it or anything, just that I didn't have any problems that I could directly attribute to WinME. I went to Win2k soon after it, though, because I wanted the NT kernel, and then finally dumped windows entirely for Mandrake Linux. So I haven't really used a Windows computer in 2 years.
Re:What's with the site design? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What's with the site design? (Score:2)
Note that much of this is a problem specific to the Windows API -- it doesn't deal too well with resizing all the fonts. There's too much pixel-level positioning.
GTK apps tend to do a better job.
Re:What's with the site design? (Score:2)
More people than you know use 800x600.
So what? I was talking about the idiotic practice of making your columns fixed-width, which means most people will have half-a-page full of white background and then a narrow column of text in the left-hand side. Increasing the font size will simply make the text flow further and further down until you have one or two words on each row. Is this a service to sight-impaired users?
Re:What's with the site design? (Score:2)
Who do you think is teaching you young whippersnappers how to compile your kernels? Yes, those with poor vision prefer 800x600 (sometimes on a 19 inch monitor). Get back to me after you get cataracts. Yeah, I know, you think you'll be young forever. :-)
Re:What's with the site design? (Score:2)
Re:Hey Mike, don't dis AMD! (Score:2, Funny)
Yes, because unlike Dell workers, I spend 2 seconds to check if the heatsink is properly mounted.
Re:My crappy Compaq (Score:2)