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Yellow Dog Linux 2.3 Released 173

Posted by michael from the smack-oh-ess dept.
pinqkandi writes "Yesterday, TerraSoft Solutions announced its next generation of its PowerPC Linux, Yellow Dog 2.3. New in this version is Kernel 2.4.19, KDE 3.0.1, CUPS printing, and OpenOffice 1.0, among other updates of included applications. It is available immediately from TerraSoft's online store for $30, or $60 if you want personal support for 60 days."
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Yellow Dog Linux 2.3 Released More

Yellow Dog Linux 2.3 Released

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  • 2.4.19 kernel? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Clue4All ( 580842 ) on Friday June 28, 2002 @07:52PM (#3789858) Homepage
    Perhaps they'll be willing to share it with the rest of us. I've been waiting for it for a few months now and still can't get it. ;-)
    • I thought that was a typical /. editor's gaffe, but it's actually YDL [yellowdoglinux.com]'s fault:

      YDL 2.3 surpasses YDL 2.2 with an array of timely updates, improvements: kernel 2.4.19, the 'Liquid' theme, CUPS print system, apt-get, OpenOffice 1.0, Mozilla 0.9.9, Galeon 1.2, Evolution 1.0.5, AbiWord 1.0.2, netatalk 1.5.3.1, and support for the Radeon 7500 (excluding 'Mobility') video card.

      The funny thing is, already they're a step ahead on the kernel, they are one behind on mozilla...

  • Kernel 2.4.19 (Score:3, Informative)

    by daserver ( 524964 ) on Friday June 28, 2002 @07:54PM (#3789869) Homepage
    Kernel.org says 2.4.19rc1

  • YDL vs. OSX (Score:5, Interesting)

    by conan_albrecht ( 446296 ) on Friday June 28, 2002 @07:54PM (#3789871)
    I purchased a titanium powerbook just for the purpose of running YDL 2.2 on it. (I liked the style of the powerbook--still do). I purchased YDL and found it very well put together. I was very impressed with it.

    However, after a few weeks of playing with OS X (I left a small OSX partition), I erased YDL and now I work exclusively in OS X. The Linux desktops just don't compare to it, and MS Office runs on OS X as well. I don't personally use it Office, but it's nice to have when I working with others.

    In sum, YDL would be great for older Apple hardware that won't run OS X. If you have newer hardware, OS X is wonderful for a desktop machine.
    • OS X rocks for TiBooks too.

      Looking forward to picking up mine tonight at the Apple Store ... Cocoa programming, here I come.

      I might look at YDL for an older PowerPC Mac I have in storage. Would make a great companion to my (growing) stable of resucitated computers (debian laptop and P100 mid-tower).
    • I imagine there is virtually no contest between OSX and YDL. However, I have a PowerPC-8500/120 box with a G3 processor upgrade sitting next to me which I'm pretty sure can't run OSX

      The poor thing runs Mac OS 8.1 and is horribly buggy and unstable. If YDL can run on this and still be able to access the scanner and network printer, I think this could be a definite upgrade! Of course, the downside is that the ole Mac apps like QuarkXPress and Photoshop (user is a semi-retired freelance art director) won't be able to run so if real work is needed, the ole dual boot may be needed

      But please correct me if I'm wrong with any of this (or provide suggestions!)
      • so if real work is needed, the ole dual boot may be needed

        Actually, I believe YDL atleast used to come with MOL (Mac on Linux?) which allowed you to run Mac OS 8/9 applications on your linux desktop in much the same way that OS X does. So it makes sense to keep the OS 8 partition but you probably won't have to do any dual booting provided you have enough memory.

      • Re:YDL vs. OSX (Score:2, Interesting)

        by iggie ( 183722 )
        I used all my old MacOS apps when running LinuxPPC through the magic of Mac-on-linux (MOL). Sorry no link, but you can hit Google as well as I can. This fabulous program would boot up MacOS in an X-Window (yes, you can do a remote X-session with it), or full-screen. I always had it in an X-Window, and everything runs at native speed (there's no emulation here). Networking, cut-n-paste, etc also worked. The fabulous thing was that if you needed the extra CPU cycles, MOL had a way to chache your MacOS session, so you could shut it down almost instantly, and bring it back up almost instantly too (about a second both ways). Give MOL a try. I haven't used Linux on Macs for about a year now (all OS X now), but when I did, it worked great this way.

      • Mac-On-Linux (Score:3, Informative)

        by dmaxwell ( 43234 )
        Mac-On-Linux virtualizes a Powerpc chip and allows MacOS to run on a virtual terminal. With a little work, even networking works well. The speed feels just like a native boot on my 400Mhz Pismo. Video is a bit slow because it's just a framebuffer with no accelleration. It's plenty fast enough for things like Office even if games don't play well.

        It requires kernel modules that are built against the kernel running on the machine so you will need a good source tree to go along with your kernel. I mention this because many Powerpc Linux users go with precompiled kernels. MOL can be had from:

        http://www.maconlinux.org/
        • Just out of curiosity, do you know if there is any prospect of running MacOS X with MOL? I understand it's currently not possible, but I am not familiar with the reasons why. It is also not explained (that I can find) on the MOL website. Perhaps you know more about it than I.
      • Responding to your question re OS X on a PPC 8500 with a G3 upgrade card. It's doable, at least as far as OS X Server is concerned. I used the great little hack, XPostFacto, from Ryan Rempel at http://eshop.macsales.com/OSXCenter/XPostFacto/ [macsales.com] .

        I stopped using it because I decided the whole "Apple Server" thing was too oriented toward Mac only networks. I'll probably wipe the drive and put plain OS X on it in the future and use it for SMTP and backup storage.

        The Aqua GUI will probably be too slow for every day use though.

      • I've got OSX running (well, limping) on an 8500/120 without a g3 upgrade using Xpostfacto [macsales.com]. Extremely stable, and feels like it needs ram more than a cpu bump.
      • Your 8500 will most likely run Mac OS X - given that it has a G3 card, and assuming that it has at least 128MB of RAM (more is of course better).

        You'll need a utility to be able to do an unsupported install, such as XPostFacto [macsales.com] (free) or Sonnet's software [sonnettech.com] for $30, and you may want a utility to adjust your G3's cache.

        You should at least upgrade it to 9.1.
    • Well, seeing that you are running OS X exclusively, I'd like to ask you if you don't see any difference in performance when you compare Linux and OS X. I surely do with my iBook 2, but that's perhaps because I am using a G3-based machine.

      Just for reference, here are some links describing problems that I have with MacOS X and/or the iBook:

      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=33385&cid=3607 384 [slashdot.org]
      http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2002/debian -powerpc-200206/msg00106.html [debian.org]
      http://lists.debian.org/debian-powerpc/2002/debian -powerpc-200205/msg00146.html [debian.org]
      href="http://cr.yp.to/hardware/ppc.html [cr.yp.to]
      http://cr.yp.to/hardware/advice.html [cr.yp.to]

      The last two articles aren't written by me, of course, but by D.J. Bernstein, who has a deep understanding of various architectures.

      Anyway, I would appreciate any help regarding the problems listed above, especially those addressed in the first link.

      • Well, seeing that you are running OS X exclusively, I'd like to ask you if you don't see any difference in performance when you compare Linux and OS X. I surely do with my iBook 2, but that's perhaps because I am using a G3-based machine.

        I used to dual boot Mandrake PPC and OS X 10.1.4. Speed difference? There is no question. Going between the two was like night and day.

        OS X was a slug, while Mandrake hummed right along. Web browsing especially was way faster under Linux. Booting back to OS X for 'real work' was always terribly disappointing. Waiting for a PROGRAM to do something complicated is one thing, but waiting for a GUI to do something simple is just unacceptable... I no longer own that iBook.

    • Oh come on. I think it's pretty obvious by now that with OS X vs. anything OS X wins! Expect againt a nice Mutton, Letuce, and Tomato... When the Mutton is nice and lean... nothing beats that. But that's not the issue, we all know OS X is the ultimate OS, now just think to sit down in front of OS X with a MTL...
      • just think to sit down in front of OS X

        I don't want to sit. I want to work. Linux is a perfect system to work - development, productivity, even home office - to work, what I want. OS X is a perfect system to sit and enjoy the view, what is not exactly I would want to limit myself. So, I run Linux (YDL) and work. And enjoy looking at how other people enjoy looking at results of my work.

        Does it make any sense?

    • Look at all these OS-X-addicted users - it's alive picture of microsoft-addiced users back a decade ago. When people don't have brains they demand look-n-feel. And then write in a resume - "professional mouse clicker".

      Actually I am not against look-n-feel, when it's not a goal, when it just helps, rather than disturbs.

    • I've switched nearly all my work from OS X to Linux. The reason is simply the availability of open-source applications. Fink is great, but the selection of apps is nothing compared to what you can run on Linux; and running X Windows on OS X is a royal PITA.

      I don't personally use ... Office, but it's nice to have when I working with others.
      So why not use OpenOffice on Linux?

      My only real complaint about Linux is that there is no standardization of user interfaces as there is with MacOS. It's pretty sad when cut and paste doesn't even work right...

      • >It's pretty sad when cut and paste doesn't even work right...

        What is giving you problems cutting ans pasting?
        In X:
        copy = highlight
        cut = highlight, delete
        paste = middle mouse button

  • but what really can this do that Darwin or OSX can't?
    • Run acceptably on my iMac rev. A, for one thing. I've got enough memory for OSX, but "run" is not the operative word. "Saunter" or "Mosey" are more like it.

      I am Dyslexic of Borg. Resemblance is fertile. Your ass will be laminated.

    • It'll run more reliably and flexibly as a server, I'd say. As a desktop system, OS X is definitely better than Linux. Linux on PPC is more mature than Darwin, however, and requires fewer system resources to run than OS X.

      Of course there's also the fact that Linux supports more hardware on the PPC side than OS X or Darwin. Good luck running OS X on a Powermac 7200.
    • It can run at decent speeds on a Mac from 1999 or 2000. 'nuff said.
    • I switched to YDL from OS X because I wanted to run X Windows apps. Sure, there is an X server for Darwin, but why not just go all of the way and use Linux? Also, back in the day that I tried it, there where so few apps available for OSX that dispite the (arguably) less mature GUI that Linux provides, the application base was far larger.
    • * Rip CDs to a format other than mp3
      * support for most scanners out of the box
      * virtual terminals (not gui terminal windows)

      Those are three important things to me
    • Linux helps you to grow, to get smarter. microsoft and apple addict you with their look-n-feel. Starring at GUI and dragging-n-dropping things improves your "professional mouse clicking" skills. But if you want to start thinking then Linux is your right choice.

      Linux helps you to understand the system architecture, network protocols and even programming concepts. In a lot of cases of Linux usage scenario you don't have to program or administrate your system by yourself. But the good news that such chance is not hidden from you - it's around the korner.

      Try to think about it (if you are still capable to think). Do you want to live the life of "professional mouse clicker"?

  • for making older macs that don't run OS X useful :)

  • Which kernel? (Score:2, Funny)

    by dorward ( 129628 )
    If they are including 2.4.19 are they going to publish their time travel method under an open documentation license?

  • PPC Can do Debian too (Score:5, Informative)

    by Juhaa ( 588855 ) on Friday June 28, 2002 @08:10PM (#3789951)
    This is my experience with installing Potato Debian on my iBook DVD, using the
    rev0 CDs. I know this story is about YDL, but a lot of people do not realize that Debian and Mandrake works just as fine on Apple hardware. And thus this walkthrough, hope it's helpful, give it a try.

    This is not a Guide to Debian installation, rather a step-by-step
    guide (doh!). And write down what you're doing (especially partition numbers,
    that the reason why I'm writing this and reinstalling everything from scratch
    for the second time)
    Enjoy.

    Instructions
    ------------

    1. Boot the laptop with the iBook install, by pressing "C" during the chime
    sound
    2. Launch the Drive Setup, on the CD, in the Utilities directory
    3. I created 2 partitions. First one is the Linux Place Holder, one big fat
    partition that we'll split into all your Linux partitions during the Debian
    install process. The second one is for MacOS. You might want to create 3
    partitions (respectivily for Linux, MacOS, and an HFS one for sharing files
    between Linux and MacOS). I'm only using MacOS to play DVDs, so it's no big
    deal for me.
    4. Install MacOS on the MacOS drive (don't install on the place holder for
    Linux!)
    5. Reboot the 'puter, it should work, otherwise bring your iBook back to the
    shop and jump off a cliff.

    6. Now that we're sure that the iBook and MacOS works, reboot up, and press
    Option-Apple-O-F during the chime to access the Open Firmware.
    7. type in "boot cd:\\yaboot". Try "boot cd:\install\powermac\yaboot" if the
    former fails.
    8. On the yaboot prompt, enter "debian video=aty128fb:vmode:10:depth:8:" where
    debian is the name of the image you're gonna be using to boot (hit to
    list the available ones).
    9. Select your keyboard, and Partition your HD, following Ethan Benson's
    mac-fdisk-basics.txt (see at the bottom for URL).
    11. At this point I have this kind of partitioning:
    hda1 to hda8: MacOS crap
    hda9: Apple_Bootstrap partition
    hda10: / (root)
    hda11: swap
    hda12: /home (home)
    hda13: /opt (opt)
    hda14: MacOS

    (...Later...)

    10. When asked if you want to "Make Linux Bootable Directly From Hard Disk",
    get to another console and get a shell (on the iBook, it's a bit dodgy,
    keep pressed in this order Apple-fn-F2).
    11. Run this line to get your bootstrap partition initialized:
    mkofboot --boot /dev/hda9 -m /target/etc/ofboot.b --root /dev/hda10 --partition 10
    12. In the present state, you wouldn't be able to boot Linux because of the
    (lack of) novideo option in the default yaboot.conf
    Edit the /target/etc/yaboot.conf. Here is what it looks like after all the
    editing:

    boot=/dev/hda9
    device=hd:
    timeout=20
    install= /boot/yaboot
    magicboot=/boot/ofboot.b

    image=/vmlinux
    label=Linux
    root=/dev/hda10
    read-only
    partition=10
    append = "video=aty128fb:vmode:10:depth:8:"

    13. Run that to be able to run Linux:
    ybin -C /target/etc/yaboot.conf -m /target/etc/ofboot.b
    14. Reboot the system, and get into the Open Firmware again
    15. To boot your linux system, type in:
    boot hd:9,yaboot

    (...Later...)

    16. Voila, you still need to configure your computer (X-Window, dial-up,
    desktop...), but at least it will boot up normally =)
    17. to boot up by default with Linux, run "setenv boot-device hd:9,yaboot"
    within the Open Firmware. Press the Option key during the chime to boot
    MacOS.

    • Re:PPC Can do Debian too (Score:2, Interesting)

      by jockm ( 233372 )
      As opposed to my expeience with YDL:

      1) Boot off of CD
      2) Follow guided setup

      I think Debian is a gread distro, but it is kinda hard-core. It's not up to the kind of smooth install Mac users expect.
      • YDL is good for those doing the MAC-to-Linux bridge. But, if you've ever tried out debian, you'd know how much better it is, once it's installed :) It's a lot easier to maintain a Debian based system than any other distro out there (even including the FreeBSD's). It's not very hardcore and Debian doesnt really need any more knowledge than what you might already have. If you've ever compiled a kernel, then you're ready for a smooth Debian installation. If you like debian you might wanna try Gentoo btw, I believe that's for a bit more advanced group. But, any good MacOS developer/YDL user can install Debian.
    • This is complete news to me that my "oldworld" Power PC here is capable of running Linux! I was equally surprised the YDL is not unusual in supporting Macs but Mandrake and the like happily support PowerPC too.

      I'm a happy Mandrake-on-intel-laptop user. So any suggestions on what I need to consider when deciding whether to put, say, Mandrake or YDL on this power pc? My only thoughts are that Mandrake has advantages in familiarity and it's well known user-friendliness wherease YDL gets the plus for being specifically targetted at the Macintosh and may be easier to set-up and use

      Also bear in mind that I'll be half doing this to convert my mum to Linux. If I can do that, I know Linux will be ready for the "mum" world of users
      • Last week, I reformatted my IDE drive on my Pismo Powerbook and installed Mandrake 8.2 (for the powerpc of course) on it. The DrakX Installer is GREAT. After partitioning ther IDE with the Apple mac 'Drive Setup' program into a small 3gig Mac OS Extended partition at the front of the IDE drive I left the remainder of the IDE as 'Unallocated'. The DrakX Installer found the free space on the IDE drive and created the proper /de/hdaxx devices, automagically!! Much simpler then the method that YDL 2.2 forces you to do (in YDL2.2 you have to manually create the Apple_Bootstrp,swap,and root devices).

        The DrakX Installer offers several choices for Mac specific items such as the monitor, keyboard and mouse. I got full mouse and sound up the first time. The DraskX Installer found my Cable Modem Internet connection (DHCP) and I had internet connection on the first boot.

        The only problem is the the Mandrake PrintConf program doesn't recognize the Epson printer attached to my USB port. The printer works fine under Mac OS8/X so I know the USB port is OK.

        All in all, the Mandrake Installation was much easier than the YDL and sound works on Mandrake 8.2

        All in all I like Mandrake and will probably stay with it (on my Pismo)

        Give it a try, it's simple, pretty easy btw. I'd say Mandrake is the easiest on this platform now for Linux. Debian still being the hardest (but I feel coolest :))

    • ... Step 17: [laughs] There's no step 17! There's no step 17! [laughs]

  • libm in the right place ? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by johnjones ( 14274 ) on Friday June 28, 2002 @08:30PM (#3790047) Homepage Journal
    I tried the last yellow dog and found that their libm was fscked

    doesnt exactly inspire me

    anyone tried to compile spec benchmarks on it ?

    regards

    john jones

  • Slashdot Typo (Score:3, Informative)

    by jchawk ( 127686 ) on Friday June 28, 2002 @08:58PM (#3790159) Homepage Journal
    I thought the 2.4.19 was just a normal slashdot typo, but it appears that they are listing 2.4.19 on their website.

    " YDL 2.3 surpasses YDL 2.2 with an array of timely updates, improvements: kernel 2.4.19, the 'Liquid' theme, CUPS print system, apt-get, OpenOffice 1.0, Mozilla 0.9.9, Galeon 1.2, Evolution 1.0.5, AbiWord 1.0.2, netatalk 1.5.3.1, and support for the Radeon 7500 (excluding 'Mobility') video card. "

    Perhaps they have a typo or they are running a beta kernel or something. . . Could be they just have a typo on the site and let it alone to generate more interest in their distro?

    Ah who knows. . .

  • disappointed (Score:2, Informative)

    by jchristopher ( 198929 )
    I've been terribly disappointed in Yellow Dog Linux (and frankly, Linux on PPC in general) in the past. Unlike x86, where RedHat et al have to make their stuff basically install on ANYTHING, YDL and the other PPC Linux vendors have a VERY limited set of hardware to support.

    For the most part, G3 and G4 towers, iMacs, and portables. That isn't too much variety of hardware. Yet no one can get it right! Every linux on PPC I've tried has suffered from some terrible screwup!

    The computer I was trying to use was an iBook2, about a year old. YDL, Mandrake, Suse, they all claim to support it. Yet no one can make the Airport card work as part of the install process! Sound frequently doesn't work, (i.e works in KDE but not Gnome or vice versa), and video problems abound.

    It seems that for the most part these guys just copy what's already available in x86 land. I'm no programmer, so maybe I'm just misinformed. But would it REALLY be that hard to write a bit of code to enable the Airport card during the install? After all, there is only ONE card you need to support, Apple's! Instead, every PPC linux makes you dig up a how-to, type some command line mumbo jumbo, sacrifice a chicken, etc. I never could get it working.

    • I just installed YDL 2.2 (I'm pissed, I would've waited for 2.3, but no bother) on a G3 550 PowerPC to use as a Scoop web server. I am utterly impressed by it's flexibility and stablity, and flabbergasted at how well it runs compared to my RedHat Linux 7.3 on an AMD Athlon 1700+ (with twice the ram).

      In my experience, any distribution is touchy on a laptop, and I personally had nightmares putting SUSE, RedHat, Caldera, and BSD on a Sony PCG-F580. Finally, I just put WindowsXP on there, figuring either way it was destined to be crippled : )
    • The difference is that with x86 hardware, most things have published API's, and massive numbers of coders and hackers out there to try and beat on the code. Linux on the PPC suffers from a company that staunchly refuses to tell them how everything works, and from a very short supply of coders - especially since Apple started it's Darwin project, and has been sucking otherwise interested and talented coders away from Linux into making Darwin better. Just to help make it harder, lots of linux hardware code is poorly written - in that it's very x86 specific. One of the main differences is byte-order (the hex number 0x123456 is stored in memory in x86 machines as 0x563412 - and if you use shortcuts in your logic (which many people do) or hardcode byte-swapping into your code (which many people do) the driver has to be checked very carefully or in some cases entirely rewritten - and it's tricky because many times a driver will mostly work, but one or two byteswaps weren't found, which may cause unexpected behavior in some instances). And it's not as if Apple only offers one video card and one airport card, etc. Between models, they usually change quite a bit without telling anyone - because what do they care? So the fact that it works on one model means nothing on another model - so each one has to be checked. Which means someone who contributes code has to have access to each and every model. This isn't so difficult on the vast PC market - but on the Mac market? It's rare.
  • I would put put gentoo/PPC on it, since:

    a. gentoo is 100% free
    b. gentoo offers the best package manager ive ever used (and yes, i have used both debian and slack).
    c. gentoos package crew are cowboys, the give you the lates and greates of everything. Fast, gnome2 is for example allready available in the portage tree.
    d. gentoos community is the most helpfull crowd ive ever stumbled over, there are allways tons of help to get if u need it @ #gentoo on openproject.Theres allways a ton of people in there, even the creator finds time to hang out there in a regular basic. Forget paying for support, the support you will get from the community will probertly be better than any support you would get for money.

    I could go on and on, gentoo rocks(best disto out there in my opp). And they have a PPC build, soo go for it. No need to waste hard earned money.

    • Defending YDL (Score:2, Informative)

      by thelizman ( 304517 )
      Yellow Dog Linux is also Free (as in Beer). Just like everyone else, they don't exactly make it easy for you to download the free ISO versions. You can FTP into ftp.yellowdoglinux.com anonymously. They don't have the ISO's up for the new version, but Pomona (2.1) and Rome (2.2) are there, and you can download all the new packages for 2.3.

      What I like about Yellow Dog Linux? Unlike other Linux companies, Terrasoft is actually expanding the scope of Linux by offering practical solutions built around the dynamite combination of PowerPC processors and Linux. I could shill all day about the Yellow briQ Node and the Black Lab Clustering distribution, but it just would'nt be dignified. They've also got a kickass 2U rackmount dual PPC Linux based server, which offers a wonderful alternative to Apples XServe.

      AFAIC, YDL deserves my $30, and non-linux types would be well served by the supported $60 version (better than Micro$hafts support). Like our friends Google, they're actually bringing legitimacy to linux, and helping push it into the public.
      • I have been with YDL since 1.2. I have strayed to other distros, but keep coming back. YDL works well, and delivers good value. They have even relieved me from RPM hell by including apt-get. I am grateful.

        I will upgrade in time, but 2.2 works so well, I see no need.

        I am a OSX fanatic, but have not and will not abandon Linux.
    • Gentoo/PPC has one huge problem. It shares the same portage tree as the I86 version. Packages are tested for I86, and they break the PPC distribution. I wasted a weekend trying to install Gentoo PPC on my iBook, and I couldn't emerge system because the build for ncurses was broken.
  • Okay, all you trolls complaining about Terrasoft charging for linux need to log on to ftp.yellowdoglinux.com where you'll find ISO's for 2.1 and 2.2 avialable for download, as well as all the new packages for 2.3.

    Moreover, YDL isn't doing anything anyone else isn't doing. Charging for support and distribution. I'd pay $30 for the shirt it comes with.

    You should alse look at what else YDL is doing to further Linux: The Yellow briQ Node, Black Lab clustering server, and a 2U rack mounted server that makes X-Serve look bloated.

    These guys rocs like google does.

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